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  • There were no classification systems at the time so even though Tresspasser is the first Kaiju to come to earth, could it possibly be the toughest Kaiju, tougher than even Slattern? It took 3 nukes to kill Trespasser but Slattern, though alive, looked very damaged from taking a single nuke strike that it probably wouldn't survive another.

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    • I was actually thinking the same thing myself, Trespasser is my favorite kaiju in PR next to Mutavore and Knifehead but I think Trespasser might be (not the strongest) but most certainly the toughest Kaiju that was sent out, hell maybe he even is among one of the strongest.

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    • All nukes are not created equal. There is a world of difference between a "small" nuclear explosion and a "large" one. To put it into perspective, the Tsar Bomba is 1400 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. Even if Slattern prioritized offense over defense (which is entirely possible or even likely, given what we saw of it), it seems reasonable to assume that a nuclear bomb designed to detonate underwater (far away from any people) and permanently collapse a dimensional portal (which is another way of saying "max it the **** out!") would be many times stronger than one intended to kill a never-before-seen monster in a populated city (which would err on the side of minimum collateral damage). And that's without getting into the official Armor numbers for Tresspasser and Slattern (4 vs 10+).

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    • 1. Even if the nukes used on Trespasser could possibly be much smaller than the one used on Slattern, the fact that it took THREE nukes to kill it already prove that it's way tougher than any of the other shown Category 4 Kaijus in the movie, which can be hurt by PUNCHING and CARGO SHIPS.

      2. Why would they care for collateral damages when bombing Trespasser when they were perfectly ok with sacrificing the lives of the citizens living there? And I'm no nuclear scientist but 3 nukes probably turned the place into Chernobyl anyway, no one's gonna be wanting to live there for the next couples of thousand years.

      3. Only because it's a desolated area doesn't mean its a better idea to detonate a bigger nuke. The contamination of the water could potentially destroy the ecosystem and as I presume you would already know, critical alternations to any marine ecosystem alone could cause the rest of the global ecosystems to go to hell, so we're essentially just making another version of apocalypse there where everyone dies painfully from cancer instead of giant monsters.

      4. If they used Tsar Bomba, Gypsy Danger would've been dead, in rough estimation of the distance between Gypsy and the explosion, there's just no way she could escape in time.

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    • Three Hiroshimas is still less that 1/400th of Tsar Bomba. Of course, that's not to say that something as powerful as Tsar Bomba would be used, but the point is that different nuclear weapons have vastly different yields, and it is therefore folly to claim that three nukes of unspecified yield are greater than one.

      The fact that kaijus can survive nuclear blasts yet be harmed by giant robots punching them in the face is indeed completely unrealistic, just like how giant robots are built to fight the monsters even though their weapons could just easily be mounted on anything else. Or how the giant robots laugh at the square-cube law. Or how they manage to not sink into the ground due to the absurd pressures a giant bipedal machine would put on whatever it is standing on.

      In other words, yes, there are absurd things in Pacific Rim. It's a giant robot movie; of course certain things will not make sense when examined more thoroughly. We are supposed to ignore such issues. Otherwise the entire premise of the movie falls apart.

      And you know what? We have canonical proof in the form of Slattern that in this movie, things that can survive nuclear blasts can be harmed by giant robots.

      The civilians in the city Tresspasser attacked weren't the issue. They were dead either way. The concern was for every other city in the region. If you believe you can kill the monster with a nuke that destroys only one city, why would you go for the nuke that destroys three? Obviously, it turned out that the one-city-destroying nuke wasn't enough, but they didn't know that.

      Detonating a nuke at the bottom of the ocean is less dangerous to the global ecosystem than detonating one of equal strength in a populated area (it is true that the ocean's health is essential to the health of the planet, but most of the ocean's life is near the surface). Ergo, you can detonate a larger one at the bottom of the ocean than you would in a populated area and the overall danger level to the environment would be the same. Furthermore, there is no reason to think the heroes particularly cared about environmental concerns when they were calculating how big a nuke they needed to save the world.

      Also, it bears repeating that the requirements for a nuke designed to level a city and a nuke designed to permanently seal a dimensional portal are probably very different, with the latter almost certainly requiring a much higher degree of power.

      Yet another factor to consider is the absurdity of the toughest Kaiju being the first one. The trend throughout the entire movie was that the Kaiju gradually became more dangerous over time (as the Precursors began specializing them for dealing with Jaegers). The idea of the first one being a category 5, and then all subsequent ones being weaker ones that gradually become more powerful, simply doesn't match the established pattern.

      Finally, the Armor stat of Tresspasser is 4. Slattern's is 10+. Slattern is canonically far tougher than Tresspasser. Numbers don't lie.

      If it makes you feel better, while Tresspasser was certainly not the toughest of the Kaiju, he was likely the most effective. He inflicted massive damage on mankind's civilian and military resources in a highly populated region for several days and forced them to resort to repeated nuclear strikes to kill him (causing untold extra damage in the process). That's a hard record to beat.

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    • Note that I'm entirely operating under the idea that Trespasser is the Kaiju who appeared before the Categorizing system could be made, that any further identifications of its strenghts cannot be measured after its death, therefore ignoring the 'official stats' given because official sources also said perfect measurements on Trespasser cannot be made.

      Even with the trend of Kaijus coming more often while getting progressively stronger, you have to ask why. Why would they send in progressively stronger Kaijus, giving us time to also progressively improve our defenses? Why not send in 5 Cat.4 Kaijus the moment they became certain that Cat.2 can't get the job done? Why not wait for some years to make more Kaijus and then send an entire army of them through the portal all at once? I think it's because they can't, the Precursors themselves also have technological limitations that they have to gradually improve on over time.

      At first it might take months to develop a lower leveled Kaiju, they may also have limitations in how frequent the portal can be used and how many Kaijus it can transport, but as the story continues the Precursors improved upon all of their technologies, being able to build stronger Kaijus at faster rates while also being able to use the portal more frequently.

      That's why Trespasser is the special case as the first Kaiju, it might be the prototype Kaiju the Precursors spent hundred, if not thousands of years, into making and improving upon. Contrast this to the later Kaijus which are to be made within months while their technology are still incomplete. That's why Trespasser could potentially be a Cat.5 or higher even though it is the first Kaiju to show up.

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    • To prevent any potential confusion, I am 108.240.140.39.

      Trespasser (apparently, I was spelling it incorrectly) did exist before the category system was made. However, that does not make the numbers for his strength, speed, and armor any less canon. If anything, his numbers would be even more accurate than for other Kaiju, because he lived longer (and there would therefore have been more time to observe him). Of course, that's assuming that our sources on those numbers come from in-universe. As it turns out, they come from official sources outside the movie itself (as do Slattern's).

      And yes, the Kaiju do become more more dangerous over time. But that is explained by the Precursors engineering them to better fight the Jaegers. It does not follow that Trespasser is some kind of super prototype (that kind of logic only applies to giant robots, and even then only when it belongs to the protagonist!). Indeed, were Trespasser a category 5, then there would have been no need for the Precursors to slowly evolve the Kaiju to be better and better; they could simply have saved their time and effort and rebuilt their ultimate weapon. Instead, we see their creations gradually getting better and better at fighting Jaegers, as if the Precursors are trying to improve their designs.

      Finally, I find myself curious as to why Trespasser gets special treatment. He may have been the first Kaiju, but he was not the only one against which the nuclear option was used. In fact, every Kaiju before the Jaeger program was eliminated through nuclear arms. Are they category 5's, too? There is just as much evidence. If we assume that Trespasser was a category 5, then it only seems logical that they must be as well. However, that would make it a very odd coincidence that the category 5's stopped appearing right before the Jaegers and category systems appeared.

      In any case, the numbers are official. Trespasser is far more fragile than Slattern, and doesn't have anywhere near the statline or dimensions that one would expect of a Category 5. With no evidence to support the idea that he is a category 5 (and the presence of evidence suggesting the contrary), there is little choice but to conclude that he is probably not a category 5.

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    • I only chose to believe Trespasser is the superior prototype because it's the closest logical explaination I could come up with to why Trespasser(supposed Cat.1) requires 3 nukes to die while Cat.4 can be beaten to death by a cargo ship.

      As I've explained, I believe Trespasser is the superior prototype because the Precursors could have spent much more time and resources into improving him in comparison to later Kaijus. The Kaijus after Trespassers may still be mostly killed by nukes only because there's no other options until Jaegers are launched, but as it never states how many nukes it took or how intense each strike was required to bring the other Kaijus down, the assumption that they are inferior to Trespasser is as legit as the assumption that they are superior to him at this point.

      As I've said, the Precursors could have spent hundreds of years to try to improve on Trespasser alone that they're their only ultimate weapon at that point. The Kaijus following after Trespassers may not be as strong as him due to less alien resources being invested into creating them, or perhaps some other time limit factors that causes them to be launched before they could matured to the same age Trespasser was. Again, this is working under the speculation that Precursors had worked on Trespasser alone for over 100+ years in comparison to some flimsy months they spent to create later Kaijus. The Kaijus are only progressively stronger from that point with the development in technology on the Precursor's side.

      After seeing Trespasser failed, it is actually more logical that they dispatch the next Kaiju ASAP instead of taking time to create another ultimate weapon to replace Trespasser, because during the time they take to develop and improve another Trespasser, huamnity may have invented better weapon they're much more willing to use than the nukes they currently have(as in a kind of theoretical bomb that is cheaper, more powerful, and environmental friendlier.)

      And again you may think I'm being stubborn on this but I still don't want to believe in the numbers because the method of how Kaiju stats are measured are blurry at best. Trespasser having lived longer does not actually prove that there will be more evidences of him, given that other Kaijus category and stats can instantly be evaluated the instant  they emerged from the portal and they are calculated by people who never met said Kaiju in person, if not by computer, we simply don't know how they measure it so I'll continue to be skeptical on this part. Also as said before another official source also stated that the stats of Trespasser cannot be determined after it's death, with one source saying we can evaluate its stats while the other says we can't, there's just more place for skepticism. Just like the problem with the confusion on the names of the Russian rangers, 2 or more official sources can just create more unneccessary confusion.

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    • I don't remember any category 4's getting beaten to death with a cargo ship. I remember one being hit with one, but not killed with it. We've already been over how it doesn't make sense that the Jaegers can kill things that nukes can't but the story wouldn't work otherwise.

      Before the Jaegers, every Kaiju died by nuke. After the Jaegers, every Kaiju died by Jaeger. Unless we are going to assume that the Kaiju magically became weaklings at the exact same time the Jaeger started fighting them, then we have to accept that giant robots can do what nuclear weapons can't, even though it doesn't make sense (it's a giant robot movie; deal with it).

      The Precursors don't "improve" Kaiju after they've built them. They build them and send them out. If it works, good. If it doesn't, they take what they've learned from the experience and make a better one. That's why the Kaiju are evolving. In other words, based on the Precursor MO, Trespasser can't possibly be the ultimate Kaiju because whatever came after him would have been Trespasser+1. That's how the Precursors operate.

      If I claim that Brawler Yukon is the fastest Jaeger, does that mean that Striker Eureka has to be content with second place? After all, we don't even have official numbers for Brawler Yukon, so technically, we have more evidence that Brawler Yukon is faster than Striker Eureka than we do that Trespasser is a super Kaiju. So does that mean Brawler Yukon is the Flash in giant robot form?

      No, of course not. Baseless claims are just that: baseless.

      I'm sorry, but speculation does not trump official numbers, especially when it goes against the pattern of the plot. Trespasser, as cool as he might be, is not a super Kaiju. He is special because he is the first. Nothing more, nothing less.

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    • Said it before and will say again

      1. Trespasser died by 3 nukes because the government underestimated it, that's why it became their instant response to nuke the following Kaijus instantly until Jaegers, the alternate option, became available. This does not mean the Kaijus following Trespasser REQUIRES the same amount of nuclear explosion Trespasser took to die, they could have been weaker and so the nuke were an overkill to them, but the government didn't want to underestimate them again so the durability of these post-Trespasser pre-Jaeger Kaijus are indeterminate. It does not mean all Kaijus after Trespasser needed nukes to die or they instantly became nerfed once Jaegers are available, it means they can be harmed by things weaker than nukes, which includes punching and missiles.

      2. Trespasser could have took thousands of years to create and grew, it is likely that the process of creating the following Kaijus had some sort of time constraint possibly due to the availabilities of the portal, leading them to be launched before they could aged into the same stage as Trespasser. The only reason Kaijus take less and less time to make during the story is only because the Precursors also improve upon their Kaiju-making technology along the way as well, which does not contradict with the fact that the Precursors can still meddle with the creation and upgrade their Kaiju into however way they want during production.

      3. I'm skeptical on numbers because another source says there's no numbers for Trespasser, like the issue with what the name of the Russian rangers are, there may be a definitive official answer, but as of now we just don't know that, which opens up the space for being skeptical.

      4. I don't see how it goes against the pattern of the plot if you read what I wrote carefully. The Precursors have technological limitations in how many Kaijus they can make at a time, that's why the amount of Kaijus sent to earth can be predicted and that's why they don't send in 50 Kaijus through the portal all at once, because they can't.

      With the time constraint they have, the Precursors didn't have enough time to let the Kaijus mature enough, that's why Otachi was sent while she was still pregnant and that's why the other Kaijus are still vulnerable to punches and missiles. Trespasser was the only Kaiju who got this time to mature to his fullest extent, therefore is said to be immune to conventional weaponry and require 3 nukes to killed, if other Kaijus were also given the same amount of time to mature as Trespasser, they would also be able to take 3 nukes while being immune to Striker Eureka's missiles.

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    • ^ You made an amazing point on saying Trespasser had thousands of years to mature, which is to why he was immune to most weapons and took 3 nukes to kill. He himself might not have been as strong as Slattern the Cat.5 but he sure as hell was as tough if not tougher than Slattern. That was a very good point, the longer they mature the stronger/tougher they become, amazing point.

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    • Have not read the last 5 posts yet....

      Maybe Tresspasser was just really damn big (like slattern sized big) because the portal needed a kick-starter to get it established. (you know, the portal was destroyed due to too much power than it was able to handle at once at the time- which is why the Kaiju could only go through every now and then until the portal was "trained" or whatever to be able to handle the power flux better and faster each time. Establishign a connection to the universe might have been needing a giant kickstarter,AKA Tresspasser)

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    • Trespasser was nowhere near as big as Slattern. Slattern was twice his size and more than twice his weight.

      There is no evidence that Trespasser took thousands of years to make. And once again, the Kaiju don't become stronger by getting older. They are constructed and sent through the breach. That's it. If Trespasser was the ultimate Kaiju, the Precursors would have simply made more of him.

      And once again, requiring three nukes to kill tells us nothing about Trespasser. As I've stated over and over again, nukes designed to kill a monster in a populated area would be as small as possible, so as to minimize the damage to surrounding areas. A nuke designed to close an interdimensional portal at the bottom of the ocean would be so much stronger it's not even funny. You're comparing the effect of three .22 caliber bullets to a single .50 cal. As it turns out, the .50 cal wins that matchup. Let go of this flawed "3 nukes of X strength > 1 nuke of Y strength" logic. It's bad, and you should feel bad for sticking to it.

      Furthermore, the entire argument being made here is speculation. "I think Trespasser is the toughest, because maybe the Precursors spent thousands of years making him (despite no evidence), even though more development time does not necessarily correlate to superior performance. And maybe those three nukes together were much stronger than the one used to wound Slattern (despite common sense dictating the contrary). And maybe all the ones after Trespasser were weaklings. And maybe they went with weak Kaijus after Trespasser because making a new Trespasser would have taken too long (even though such logic would imply that producing improved Kaijus would increase their development time, which does not match what we see in the movie).

      That's about three too many "maybes" to be taken seriously.

      I point you back to Brawler Yukon. He was the prototype functional Jaeger. So maybe they spared no expense in making him (after all, proving the concept is largely the purpose of prototypes). Maybe they cut corners on all the ones after him (after all, that's how mass production tends to work). So I say Brawler Yukon is the fastest. Heck, it requires fewer "maybes" than the idea that Trespasser was unusually powerful, so it's much more reasonable as a theory.

      If Trespasser is a cat 5 based on speculation and zero evidence, then we must also agree that Brawler Yukon is faster, stronger, tougher, and better than Striker Eureka (and Gipsy Danger, and <insert your favorite Jaeger here>) in every way, because both claims have the same amount of evidence.

      By the way, what makes people think Slattern was nearly killed by the nuke? All the damage to him resulting from it appeared to be cosmetic in nature. He wasn't missing any limbs (despite having nearly lost two of them to Striker Eureka already). If the nuke had done major damage to him, we would have expected him to lose those two arms at the very least, given how much structural integrity they had lost from Striker's blades.

      It makes no difference to the result (speculation without evidence is worthless), but I'm curious.

      I mean, really, next you'll be insisting that Slattern had an organic nuclear missile in his throat (even though we never saw it), simply because he's a category 5 and maybe the Precursors wanted to make sure he was powerful.

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    • Trespasser may not be the toughest kaiju, but he's one of the coolest. I doesn't matter if he's stronger or weaker than Slattern. We saw him in the movie and he was an awesome monster. End of story.

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    • I am 108.240.140.39 andJohn.bennett.39948 (I seem to be plagued by either login problems, or I forget to log in before posting, so please bear with me).

      Anyway, no sane person can deny that Trespasser was awesome (maybe even the most awesome). No matter how strong or weak he was, no matter what category he was, he was the first, and he set a destructive bar that I don't think any other Kaiju has ever managed to meet.

      He is what defines the Kaiju.

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    • As much as it might seem to be me acting like an adamant fanboy protecting Trespasser, I'm not, I don't have a favorite Kaiju, I'm just protecting this theory, which though at its core may only be speculation that is probably wrong as you said, but at least it covered up several blatant plotholes in the story you told me to ignore.

      1) It tells us why only a limited amount of Kaiju can appeared from the portal at once, while also explaining the strategy behind why the Precursors decide to send limited amount of Kaijus at once instead of sending an entire army.

      2) It tells us why Kaijus sent are progressively stronger and explains why they didn't simply create Slattern and send her to earth right away after seeing that Cat.2 Kaijus aren't getting their jobs done. It's not like every new Kaiju is always a +1 version of the previous one, and guess what, evidences supporting this claim does exist in the story. Right off the beginning of the story, Beckett asks his operators what Category Knifehead is. If every new Kaiju is always a +1 version of the previous one, there would have been no need to ask what Category Knifehead is because every Kaiju appearing at that point would all be Cat.3 and everyone in the PPDC would have known that. Becket's question proved that even though after Cat.3 Kaijus started to show up, there are still chances of random Cat.2 or even Cat.1 Kaijus would appear.

      3) It explains why Otachi was sent through the portal while being pregnant though strategical thinking wise there are no benefits in sending a pregnant combatant and the fact that their warrior is pregnant could also be a hindrance in their performance in battle.

      4) It justifies the fact that Trespasser survives 2 nukes while confirmed Cat.4 can be punched to death. Ignoring the matter on Slattern, because I never clearly say that Trespasser is definitely tougher than Slattern, I only say that his durability may rival that or POSSIBLY be tougher than Slattern. Even if you want to say Slattern took a much bigger nuke, fine, then Trespasser is much weaker than Slattern, but the point still stands in how in all likelihood, Trespasser is still tougher than many other shown Cat.4 which can potentially be killed by a single sword blow(Raiju). Inertia and whatever, a sword blow is never going to be as strong as any given atomic weapon.

      5) While the evidences on speculation that Trespasser may have aged a thousand years may not exist, the only evidence suggesting otherwise are the numbers you pointed out, which as I say, is unreliable due to 2 official claims conflicting on this area, therefore I choose to believe that counterarguments on this speculation is also blurry at best.

      6) In case you haven't been reading carefully, the Precursors did not create another Trespasser because he took too long to make(under the assumption that he aged for a thousand years and that longer lived Kaijus are better.) Their technology was also developing in parallel to ours. Therefore with their new technology at that point, by sacrificing Trespasser's nigh invulnerable endurance, they could make Kaijus with higher strenghts, speed, special abilities, etc at faster rates. The only thing Trespasser was good for was his durability, and at the end of the movie as we can see, the Precursors successfully created Slattern, a Kaiju stronger than Trespasser within a shorter span of time. Trespasser became an obsolete prototype at that point and therefore was never created again. Also another reason they did not take their time to create another Trespasser is because at the point Trespasser 2.0 became ready, mankind might have created a newer theoretical weapon better than nuclear weapons that they are more willing to use(less cost, stronger damage, eco friendlier, etc).

      7) Speculation without evidence that attempts to justify a specific area we're uncertain of is better than turning blind eye to a critical hole in logic. That's how scientists discovered new stuffs, by proving that their speculations does have evidences.

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    • The only reason a limited amount of Kaiju could come through at a time was because the portal was unstable. Should too much energy be required to pass something through, or an attempt to push too much energy through would collapse the portal. As seen when the Gispy goes nuclear. 

      This kinda supports my theory of Trespasser being a higher category because the portal needed a "Kickstarter" large amount of energy/mass passing through to Earth to stabilise the portal for further use.

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    • Umm, I was 202 a little further up in the thread :)

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    • K. Anyone wanna tell me which category four got punched to death? C

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    • cuz that never happend in the movie.  plus, if Trespasser just came through the breach, ya, you might not know how powerful a nuke you may need. plus,its not like it ever says thatthey where direct hits either. If it aint a direct hit then no, of course one wont kill a huge 250 ft tall monster. Him being the  ultimate kaiju also makes no sense. They state in the movie that the kaiju evolve, and  that the category system ranks them on size and weight. Plus, Newt says that categories 1-4 where just to test the defenses. So yes, Trespasser is very well a category 1, who the Precurrsurrors merely used  to see what kind of defenses we really had. Did he deal the most damage to the population? Yes. Was it also because no one was expecting to be attacked, and we had no defense but nukes to use on them.? Yes. We would have had no idea how to stop them at first. Thats why we nuked the first 4, and realized we needed something better to defeat them.

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    • First thing first, no offense but please improve you reading and writing skills, I have already explained many of your questions several times.

      1) Though punching is never used as a finishing move for any of the Kaijus in the movie, it is shown to be an effective, default method, and by any kid's common sense any given atomic weapon would be stronger than punching or slashing with a sword. On the case of the sword, Raiju, a Cat.4 Kaiju, is clearly shown to be killed by a single sword blow, I repear, even with inertia and whatever, a sword blow is never going to be stronger than a nuke.

      2) Are you even joking on the nuke part? Trespasser is slow, we can all agree on that, you'd think that if they resorted to using nuclear against him, they would hire a skilled pilot who, I don't know, wouldn't miss a FRIGGIN 250 FT monster to do the job?

      3) Again, I say that though the categorizing system of Kaijus getting gradually stronger is indeed true, Trespasser is the only exception to this rule. Go reread my posts for further explanations because I just don't feel like retyping it for the 10th time.

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    • Slattern's hide was penetrated by a chainsword, even though the nuke failed to do so.

      Right there we have proof that attacks from giant robots (such as punches, swords, and cargo ships) can inflict damage that a nuclear weapon cannot do in this story. Does it make sense? Absolutely not. But neither do giant bipedal robots in the first place. I tire of reminding people of this. The fact is, we have proof that attacks by the Jaeger can inflict damage to Kaiju that nukes have failed to do. This is completely unrealistic, but it is no more a "critical hole in logic" than the giant robots themselves.

      I have never believed that all Kaiju are completely superior in every way to the one that came directly before, and I apologize if my words made it appear that I did. I have never claimed that Trespasser was a category 1 (though it is the most likely category for him, it is not definitive). However, the trend is towards stronger and stronger Kaiju as time goes on. Furthermore, at the same time, production of Kaiju is also increasing. This suggests that the Precursors are not making any kind of sacrifices to produce better Kaiju; the only limitations are technical in nature. Therefore, as they learn how to make better and better Kaiju, the Kaiju they make become better and better.

      By the way, Becket's question doesn't actually prove that cat 2's and 1's still appear in the age of cat 3's (though that is perhaps the most likely interpretation). No one was especially surprised to hear that Slattern was a category 5 (no one said "But the scale only goes up to 4!"). Another (again, less likely, but I'm trying to be precise here) interpretation is that Becket wanted to make sure it wasn't one of those theoretical category 4's he had that nightmare about that one time.

      We have no evidence that longer-lived Kaiju are better. None. Longer-lived Kaiju being better is just as likely as Slattern being able to shoot lightning from his fingertips. In fact, given the way biology works (which admittedly has no place in a movie about giant robots), a giant animal living for a thousand years would actually be weaker because of what the process of aging does to living things. Also, it's worth noting that we do get to see a glimpse of the Kaiju creation process in the Kaiju drifts. They appear to be being literally put together (or "grown" on one piece at a time). Given this knowledge, logic would dictate that if age could make a Kaiju stronger, the Precursors would have built them to be at a later stage in their life cycle (which is a roundabout way of saying "build them to be old in the first place").

      In fact, we don't even know for sure that Trespasser was the first Kaiju created. Technically, it's possible that other Kaiju were created (possibly better ones), but Trespasser was sent first because he was more expendable. Indeed, if you have the ability to build giant monsters, and your stance regarding improvements is darwinian in nature (that is, they build them and let them fight it out; victor wins an all-expense-paid trip to Earth), why would you risk your ultimate weapon without knowing what's on the other side? Common sense dictates that the first Kaiju sent would probably have been the one most expendable. You don't send the world's best sniper to clear a minefield.

      Furthermore, given once again that the Precursors figure out how to improve their creations by letting them battle it out, it seems highly unlikely that Trespasser would have survived for hundreds or thousands of years, simply because the Precursors would have had him fighting their other creations and creating new ones based on the results. Given how quickly the Kaiju evolve against the Jaegers, it seems inevitable that the Precursors would find something better than Trespasser (even if he was their greatest creation at some point) within just twenty or thirty years (remember, there is nothing to suggest that Kaiju are modified after they have been built). So the idea that Trespasser could be the Precursors' ultimate weapon and the idea that he could have been around for a thousand years actually conflict with each other, given what we know of the Precursors' MO.

      By the way, what is this source that says Trespasser's capabilities cannot be known? I have a source saying that his category cannot be determined, but not one that says his capabilities can't be known. Remember, our numbers for his stats come from outside the story, so they trump any sources within the story itself. And even if you bring out this source, the most you would be able to argue is that Trespasser's toughness could be anything (including, say, 1).

      There are many potential reasons that the Kaiju are only sent out just as they are created. There may be technical limitations in the portal itself preventing such things (Gottlieb theorized that the portal was gradually becoming more stable, which might allow more travel). It may also be that they wanted to make sure humanity didn't get a rest to develop better means of fighting Kaiju (a hypothesis you yourself put forth). It could be that since the first wave of Kaiju are intended to weaken and test humanity's defenses (rather than outright destroy them), sending one at a time allows for maximum data with minimum resource usage. It could be that perhaps in one of the previous worlds the Precursors conquered, they tried sending multiple agents, and it turned out to be a disaster for some reason (whereas a staggered attack would have been more effective), and they decided to apply that lesson here. Or, it could simply be that the darwinian nature of the Precursors' process (Kaiju are created, then battle it out in a sort of natural selection royal rumble, and then the victor is sent to Earth as the final test) causes them to never have more than one Kaiju at a time that they consider "fit" for sending through the portal to test Earth's defenses (can't send the weaklings, because by the time you know they're the weaklings, they've already died in the process of proving who was the strongest). That last one is probably the most likely (given that it explains why the trend is towards more powerful Kaiju, yet despite being clones none of them is a perfect copy of the previous one with some additions; the Precursors are looking for a "perfect design" via natural selection, which they would then finally mass-produce).

      But no matter how much my speculation explains things, none of it has any value at all because it has no evidence (well, technically, the last one has some weak evidence supporting it, because we know that Kaiju are a "darwinian army", but weak evidence makes for a weak hypothesis). The fact is, we don't know for sure why the Kaiju invade the way they do because we don't have the necessary evidence to make any such conclusions. Idle speculation (as entertaining as it can be) is no substitute for substance.

      So what do we actually know about Trespasser?

      We know that he was the first Kaiju sent, and we know that the general trend is towards stronger and stronger Kaiju. This suggests that Trespasser is the weakest (or close to it).

      We know that there is an official set of numbers for Trespasser which places his armor at 4 (which is fairly low by Kaiju standards). We also know that Slattern's official stats are 10+ across the board. Even if the numbers weren't correct, there would be no reason to believe that they were wildly off-base (otherwise, why would they have even been published?). This suggests that Slattern is far tougher than Trespasser.

      We know that before the Jaegers, all Kaiju were destroyed by nuclear weapons. At least one of them (Scissure) required more than one (by which I mean he was nuked, survived, and was then nuked again). Note that he was the last Kaiju to attack before a Jaeger was used. This suggests that lower-level Kaiju can survive nuclear strikes.

      Having just picked up Pacific Rim: Tales From Year Zero, I can also add some things from it that we know about Trespasser.

      Trespasser was wounded by aircraft using miniguns (enough to bleed). The fact that bullets of such a small caliber were able to make Trespasser bleed suggest he isn't especially tough.

      We know that when Tendo was being picked up by the ferry, he said that they were "getting ready to nuke the thing". Not "nuke the thing again". This is important, because it suggests that Trespasser wasn't nuked three times, but that he was nuked once, with three nukes at the same time.

      In other words, claiming that Trespasser is tough because it took three nukes to kill him (when they were all used at once) is kind of like being shot three times with a shotgun in rapid succession, dying, and then having your tombstone read "I was so tough it took three shotgun blasts to kill me". The fact that Trespasser was killed with three nukes therefore does not tell us anything about his toughness or fragility. It is entirely possible that one nuclear missile would have been enough. Or maybe three would have indeed been needed. Or maybe it would have required two, like Scissure. We have no way of knowing.

      So, now that we've gone over what we know about Trespasser, let's go over what we don't know.

      We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser has been around for a long time (the Precursor MO suggests the opposite).

      We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser is a category 5 or especially powerful (the trend of Kaiju strength and category increasing over time suggests the opposite).

      We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser is unusually tough (the fact that he was wounded by minigun bullets suggests the opposite).

      We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser is affected differently by punches, blades, and cargo ships than other Kaiju (the fact that none of the Kaiju we have seen exhibited unusual vulnerability or resistance to a specific attack type suggests the opposite).

      We have reached the point at which the opposing argument literally has no legs left upon which to stand.

      In closing, literally everything we know about Trespasser says that he is on the weak end of the Kaiju scale. Therefore, we must conclude that he is on the weak end of the Kaiju scale.

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    • How is Trespasser the weakest kaiju? 

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    • Weak or strong, Trespasser had to of been on the tough side and neither weak nor stronge, they wouldn't want to send a weak Kaiju through first to get killed so fast and they wouldn't want ot send a super powerfiul one so they could find a way to kill it. Trespasser had to have been in the middle, neither here nor there but with a great deal of strangth and power, I mean they cloned him the MOST being he had to have been there most succesful Kaiju, because they cloned his body type 3 times, 1 with Knifehead a CAT.3. 2 with Scunner a CAT.4. And last but far from least...Slattern a CAT 5 Kaiju even got part of the same body type as Trespasser. So he was pretty much the mold that set the stage for the rest of the Kaiju, the grandfather kaiju. (Right below Godzilla of course)

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    • ill use a quote from a team to answer this, "overkill is underrated", the us military spent 3 days failing to kill trespasser by conventional means.  Once they abandoned conventional methods and it had mostly destroyed 3 cities one would assume that enough was enough and they would want to gaurantee its destruction in the hopes of containing further kaiju related damage and used 3 nukes under the assumption that that would be overly sufficient to cause instantaneous death

      also, it doesnt state whether all 3 were used simultaneously, ie if they used a single and it didnt die they would have used 2 as the next step and it did die

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    • Hey Reaper, what about my kickstarter method? 


      Nukes do widespread damage, huge area of effect, so if done right a Kaiju could probably deflect a large amount of the damage if it knew how. (With Slattern it was probably an accident though)

      Not sure who's side of the argument that helps, but I'm just throwing it in there. 


      So, is there anything against my Kickstart theory?

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    • The main issue I see with it is that there's no particular reason to think that sending a lot of mass or energy through a portal would stabilize things. I may not be a physicist, but I would assume that throwing a lot of energy at an unstable dimensional rift would destabilize it. Throwing more energy at things usually results in greater disorder. Furthermore, if the portal could be forcibly stablized and the Precursors wanted to do so, I would expect them to keep throwing huge Kaiju through it, which isn't what we see. Personally, I would think that size doesn't make any difference one way or the other, but we have no way of really making any concrete conclusions on that one.

      However, looking at stats, Trespasser is indeed much larger than Onibaba (the only category 2 we have stats for). However, his stats are vastly inferior to the category 3's that his size is more comparable to (indeed, his stats are lower than Onibaba's).

      If I had to draw conclusions from it (which I am loath to, given that we only have numbers on two category 3's and one category 2), I would say that Trespasser seems to have the size of a category 3, but the statline of a 2 or even 1 (assuming that a category 1 would be just like a category 2, but with lower toxicity and somewhat lower stats).

      Then again, the more I look at the numbers, the weirder they get. Mutavore, a category 4, has stats no better than Trespasser (and significantly worse than any of the category 3's or even Onibaba the cat 2). Yet we know that Mutavore is no pushover because he tore apart two Jaegers.

      Of course, that just suggests something we already knew: there is more to something's threat level than its statline (heck, Gipsy Danger could have told you that). Perhaps Mutavore had some special ability that we never got to see because it was onscreen for all of ten seconds. Or perhaps his toxicity (which we don't know) is high enough to kick what would otherwise be a cat 2 or 3 into cat 4 territory. The level of consistency elsewhere (in every other case, cat 4's have higher stats than cat 3's, for example) suggests that Mutavore may be an abberation (or a mistake; in the novelization he's a cat 3). In any case, this thread isn't about Mutavore.

      Going back to Trespasser; speculating on a category for him would be difficult, because he seems to defy categorization. He's got a statline inferior to a cat 2, he's got the size of a cat 3 or 4, he appears to lack any special weapons or traits, and based on the Year Zero comic, his toxicity must be low (Kaiju blood is supposed to be able to corrode anything in its path, but when Tendo's grandfather is hit with it, he dies days later as if from poison, rather than instantly from acid burns). Without knowing how such things weigh into the system, Trespasser could theoretically be classified as anything from 1-3. He's obviously no cat 5 (nowhere near powerful, toxic, or large enough). I would also hesitate to put him at 4, simply because a 4 at the start doesn't match the trend we see of ever-escalating Kaiju power, and the only evidence that would suggest Trespasser being on cat 4 footing is having an equal statline to Mutavore (whose statline is inferior to a cat 2's and has already been established as far more deadly than his statline lets on, something that cannot be said for Trespasser). Meanwhile, his toxicity is nowhere near what a cat 4's would be (and would even be considered poor by cat 3 standards).

      Well, if the three big criteria that we can use to guess a Kaiju's category are size, threat level, and toxicity, then I would have to speculatively put Trespasser at a 1, because both his threat level and toxicity match what we would expect from one (not to mention that it once again matches the trend of Kaiju evolution). His size would then be an odd abberation.

      However, I would not have any problems with others putting him at 2 or even maybe 3, because no matter how one tries to classify Trespasser, something won't quite add up.

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    • He was big, he was annoying, and he caused a lot of damage. 

      Let's just label him a threat XD (Or Cat-2.5)

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    • I like category XD. It feels right for Trespasser to have his own category, and given how odd he becomes when trying to classify him, it feels right for said category to not be a number.

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    • read somewhere on here that the categories are purely by mass and not directly related to destructive power (kinda like listing tonnage on a warship, tells u how big it is not what it can do)

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    • I think that he was a category 3 or 4 and I think the stats are wrong as I do with mutavore.

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    • Btonkin7 wrote:
      read somewhere on here that the categories are purely by mass and not directly related to destructive power (kinda like listing tonnage on a warship, tells u how big it is not what it can do)


      We have an image on the Kaiju page saying that the scale measures water displacement, toxicity, and ambient radioactivity as they exit the breach. That data is then used to categorize the Kaiju based on their size and threat potential. I don't know why they phrased it that way, unless they were trying to suggest that the latter two traits are related to the former three.

      Either way, it isn't incredibly helpful here. The category 4 Kaiju seem to generally be about the same size and mass as the category 3 Kaiju that came before them (but have higher statlines and better special abilities). Raiju and Scunner appear to be the high end of category 4 (with more mass, greater size, higher levels of toxicity, and even higher stats). Mutavore seems to be an abberation (unless there are other factors at play that we are unaware of which make him more dangerous, which seems likely, given that his status as cat 4 is unassailable and we know that he took down two Jaegers in the blink of an eye).

      Anyway, we don't know Trespasser's water displacement or radioactivity, but we do know his size, mass, and statline. Furthermore, based on the Year Zero comic, we can conclude that his toxicity level must be low (if not a level even lower than "low").

      Ignoring Mutavore for a moment, it seems like being a category 4 requires one to be of at least category 3 size and/or mass, having medium or above toxicity levels, and a statline in excess of the category 3's (with Mutavore being an exception here for some reason). This disqualifies Trespasser because he fails two of the three criteria (the toxicity test in particular he fails catastrophically). However, it might leave the door open for him to be cat 3, if one wants to be generous.

      I still insist he is category XD, however.

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    • People really over estimate the power of nuclear weapons, Their real power comes from the fact that they're demoralizing, they are actually really silly ineffienct wepaons. Using nukes at all against the Kaiju then feeling bad about the radiation is pretty dumb, if you wanted to hit the thing with alot of Heat and over preassure just use Thermobaric Weapon all power of a nuke with out making the city unliviable.

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    • Reaper, I think the main reason we're not seeing eye to eye may be because the I refuse to believe the "punching works, nuke doesn't" part while you say just to ignore it. I understand where you're coming from since the beginning with how you say it's not supposed to make sense because giant robots themselves doesn't make sense, but to me, I chose to ignore only the possibility of the existence of giant robots and monsters and nothing apart from that for the sake of the genre. I will still admit that you are an intelligent person and it is a pleasure to be able to debate with you, even if you may think otherwise on me.

      In superhero movies we're not supposed to care how they fly, in Harry Potter movies we're not supposed to question how magics work, and in mecha movies we're not supposed to care that giant robots are actually impossible, I agree with you on that, it's the given rule of those specific universes we should ignore for the sake of enjoying the story.

      Though for me, I chose to stop my suspension of disbelief only at that, apart from the impossibilities required for the genre to work, I refuse to believe in things that the story contradicts by itself. Like how the infamous time turner in Harry Potter was never used to fix everything in the story even though it could, or why Batman never thought of sending another team to pick Harvey/Rachel up in the Dark Knight.

      I respect your attempt to make me ignore but to me this plothole still is a critical hole in logic. Even when the plot was satisfiable by millions across the world, a flaw is still a flaw. Pacific Rim's official data given to us at this has many contradictories and so I choose to believe that things not explained in the movie are open for speculations.

      I still have counterarguments I could pull out against you about why Trespasser is tougher than Cat.4 Kaijus if the numbers alone are to be ignored but I think I should put it to rest because you don't seem to be in the mood to want me to continue, if you to continue the debate you can always ask me, but since we know this debate, like every other internet debates, never ends easily and it will just tire us even further.

      It is at least good that we could agree on the speculation about the progressive advancements of Precursor technology and basically everything else not about Trespasser or nuke VS punch, overall I'm just glad that we could kept the debate civil like intelligent people, because occasions like these are rare on the internet.

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    • XD "raiju is a high end kaiju"

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    • I have to be honest I am shocked at the level of faith in Nuclear Weapons on this forum.

      -- Different types of energy in an attack

      First and foremost, the force of a Nuclear weapon has been shown to not be enough to fully knock down some buildings.  A jager fist difnitely can, as in the eneregy spent in a fist is more dense than the full blast radius of a nuclear weapon.

      Two, much of the power of a nuclear weapon comes from the heat of the explosion itelf.  Again this form of energy displacement is much different than the kenetic energy a punch could offer from something that massive.

      Defensive structure must pick what it wants to do.  If you are wearing a Kevlar vest, you are more than likely going to deflect a kenetic attack, however the heat of say a flame thrower will melt right through you in seconds. 

      On the other hand lets say I chose a full ceramic plated suite of armor.  You can bet your @ss I am going to be defended against that flame thrower no problenm.  However, some kid with a hammer could walk up and shatter me in a second.  

      Again, kenetic defense vs a form of energy defense.  Both are drastically different.


      -- Kaiju anatomy

      Kaiju are said to be completley different form the human race, instead of a carbon based lifeform they are silicone based lifeform.  The very reason why they are so toxic to our habitat. 

      Lets take a look at silicone from wikipedia's first sentance.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone

      "Silicones are inert, synthetic compounds with a variety of forms and uses. Typically     heat-resistant and rubber-like..."

      Heat resistance, bam right there is the clue. 


      -- The Perfect Weapon

      The Precursers have found the perfect "armor" to protect the vital innards of their creatures.  Much like we put huge plates of armor on our Jeagers, the Precursers chose Silicone for both of the properties mentioned above.

      The heat-restisivity is there, and the "rubbery" layer protecting the vital organs are a perfect means for energy dissapation of a kinetic attack.

      A single nuclear weapon may melt certain important areas since silicone is not completely resistant to heat.  This is the reason why a second or third may be more effective.  The first melts just enough away to open up a weak point in the armor, the second penetrates and gets the heat into a vital organ, bam dead.


      -- Trespasser

      Based on my above speculations, I believe Tresspasser was exactly what it was supposed to be, a reconnasaince mission.  The length of Trespasser shown on aircraft carrier show it was designed like a Salamander, very "un-athletic", and seemingly thinner than many later Kaiju.  It didnt appear to have any special weapons like a knifehead, an EMP, Wings, edged weapons or really even blunt weapons.   It was just a monster meant to walk around and crush what it could while gaining information about the enemy.

      In my opinion, definitely a class 1.  If the only reason we have for thinking otherwise is it took a nuke or two, please see above.


      -- Really taking down a Kaiju

      Because of their armor type we know they are resistant to both heat and kenetic energy.  The one thing we can say they seem weak against (and this fits in perfectly with silicone if you think about it) is puncture type attacks. 

      Imagine stabbing a piece of silicone, it puts a cut in it, but it doesnt fall apart.  The basic point is we need to cut THROUGH the silicone to the organs inside.  This is also seen in that swords seem to be the most efficient weapon in Pacfiic Rim (Otachi and Raiju's death as well as Slattern getting torn up by Strikers thermal blades).  So what do we do?  Give Cherno Alpha a halbaerd?  Gypsie Danger a Katana (even though he basically had two) or Striker Eureka a battleaxe?

      No, it was mentioned earlier and would have nothing to do with giant robots let alone massive weapons systems at all.

      Energy weapons (lasers) may be good for quickly melting thorugh direct points of the silicone, but agian heat is only so good.  So what do we use?

      Rail cannons.

      A rail cannon has more point impact energy than any system on the planet.  It would go straight through the silicone "armor" of a Kaiju and hit straight into a vital organ.  In my opinion, one well placed shot to a Kaiju with this weapons system would finish the job.

      Glad to join the discussion as these are so fun to do!   Below are my creds to show how much this topic is so perfect for me, so fun to hear all your opinions.  Keep em comming!


      - Masters in Mechanical Engineering, double emphasis in thermal system deisgn and robotics.

      - 11 years of Martial arts experience including black belts in Muay Thai and Shotokan Karate as well as a blue belt in BJJ

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    • 171.7.158.57 wrote:

      It is at least good that we could agree on the speculation about the progressive advancements of Precursor technology and basically everything else not about Trespasser or nuke VS punch, overall I'm just glad that we could kept the debate civil like intelligent people, because occasions like these are rare on the internet.

      I save my trolling for the real world.

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    • @69.26.143.59

      You idiot! You're supposed to give the Crimson Typhoon the Katana!!! lol jks 

      anyways, I suppose that cuts off my idea of giving Cherno a massive sledgehammer-like weapon? 

      This thread has been amazingly insightful once Reaper and the other guy got into debating (at least that what it feels like XD) and from the info and backing up the lot of you have provided, I can safely say you'd both do well in the K-Science division. Now if I ever get on with the fanfic I'm writing, I'll have some seriously realistically redesigned systems for fighting the Kaiju :)

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    • now that ive spent part of an afternoon not being productive ^^, several other early kaiju took several nuke hits as well so its not isolated that tres took a few

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    • Trespasser could have not been any higher than a Category I. The Breach was small back then, and thus, only the smaller and weaker Kaiju could pass through. The strongest and most powerful Kaiju ever faced by mankind was Slattern, and he emerged thirteen years after Trespasser did.

      Trespasser was not the strongest Kaiju ever. He was overestimated and that's it.

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    • How come he had the size of a cat 3 or 4 then? and plus Onibaba was much smaller than Trespasser yet he is cat 2.

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    • The Kaiju War had phases. Send in the weakest, send in stronger ones, then send in the heavy hitters. The first said heavy hitter was Slattern.

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    • Trespasser looks capable of destroying a weaker jaegar in my opinion, well its just mine so try to respect it :)

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    • @ 119.224.25.186

      Thanks!   And I cant believe my Asian slip up in not giving Crimson the katana you are totally right!  Since he has two right arms and a katana needs two hands to properly use, he would be the perfect mech still having an extra hand for attack!  Genius my friend!!!!

      Anyways, this movie has brought out the best in me and is honestly ridiculously and perfectly made for me.  I havent been able to stop dreaming up the science behind this movie and am having so much fun with it!

      By the way, any fanfic you make please send to me as I would LOVE to read.  Or help if you had science qustions.   :)

      @ 59.167.200.180

      From a science approach (as I try to always do) I would say that they had a certan allocation of resources to spend depending on what the breach could handle.  While Onibaba was given a hard carapace shell for defense and claws for attack.  Tresspasser merely had an "axe" on his head that in my opinion was not a weapon but an energy dissapating device similar to what we think the stegasaurus had (the theory I mostly believe anyways).  Just like in a video game, I would assume the precursors had a certain amount of "points" to allocate and Tresspasser was just a generic big monster to check out the "vermin".

      I apologize as I am not trying to discouage, just debate my thoughts.  You could totally be right!

      @ 59.167.200.180

      I believe ANY of the kaiju are big enough to hurt a Jaeger.  Especially slower and less agile Jaegers.  It almost seemed like the technology of our two species were kinda keeping up with each other.  It was just their ability to mass produce over us that was making us lose. 

      Similar to the Nazi's in WW2 I suppose.

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    • Just a quick question but is Tresspassers bioluminescence orange?(because his mouth and eyes glew orange in the movie).

      If so his power might be shooting fire or lava from his mouth,and could be a potential threat to any Jaeger or  Kaiju.

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    • color has been shown to have no effect on the abilities of a kaiju, just distinguishing marks

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    • Hey man force is force! 

      You could definitely kill a Kaiju with a big enough hammer creating enough force.   It is just that the thicker the skull the greater energy would be dissapated.  They may start coating the head and chest VERY thickly, hitting anywhere would be tough to damage.

      One of these however, I think it fits your idea for Cherno quite nicely.   :)

      http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=spiked+hammer&FORM=HDRSC2&id=0D8F3F76B889E3774C8CA790434816DB6C361218&selectedIndex=1#view=detail&id=F6C1F69B1A19168BED55B867A57DD13EBF2DAC7D&selectedIndex=9

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    • Ohh, that would work :D I'm 119 from earlier in the thread. Look for the fanfic "Ring of Fire" ;) send me a PM sometime :D

      Since the Kaiju are silicon based lifeforms, they're biological makeup is largely pre-resistant to heat and physical abuse (Pretty sure Reaper was the one talking about this), but they are more easily killed with sharp or extremely high temperature weapons, like REALLY HIGH TEMPERATURE, meaning Lasers, superheated plasma, the stinger blades, etc. 

      So... I kinda started this post abotu 3-4 hours ago and cant remember what my point was anymore... 

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    • I don't think that was me.

      Ironically however, not long after you posted that, I did point out silicon's resistance to heat in another thread.

      However, as I understand, silicon doesn't have any special resistance to physical force in the real world (sharp or otherwise). As it turns out, silicon bonds are actually much less stable and far weaker than carbon bonds (about half as strong, actually). This is probably why despite there being much more silicon than carbon on Earth, carbon-based life is what evolved.

      So, a real life silicon-based person would probably be twice as easy to cut as a regular carbon-based one.

      Like I said in that other thread: carbon is awesome like that and can do ****ing anything.

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    • Btonkin7 wrote:
      color has been shown to have no effect on the abilities of a kaiju, just distinguishing marks

      Oh yeah i forgot oh well.

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    • Twas me.  Just got back from seein it again actually.

      You are absolutely correct, the bonds are far easier to separate.

      By the way, I dont think the Kaiju bones on the aircraft carrier are Tresspasser anymore after seeing it a second time.

      Anyone esle agree?  

      The only thing I could think is perhaps my theory about his "Axe head" is made of no bone fragments.

      However, when we see the Kaiju head in the glass case, the "Axe head" is clearly visible.

      Anyone else see a flaw?  I think that may be tha Kaiju that attacked either Manila or Cabo

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    • It's entirely possible. We don't know anything about those Kaiju (except that we saw the footprints of one, I believe), so they could look like anything.

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    • it states elsewhere that theyre from cabo i believe

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    • Bare in mind that the Categories are a human definition, not one the Kaiju Masters use.

      One assumption people are making is that the Precursors are more advanced than humanity.  They may not be that much more advanced than humans. Yeah, they created a portal, and they creaated the Kaiju, but that maybe because their civilization uses organic rather than mechanical technology. They are having to create more advanced Kaiju for the same reason humans are having to build better Jaegers; they are having to adapt.

      Jaegers are costly to make, and that may also be the case with Kaiju; the Precursors only build better Kaiju when they have to, because of the greater resources the higher Categories demand. Our enemies on the other side of the portal may have resource problems too.

      I think the Precursors are technologically at a similar level to humans in terms of their own universe, rather than seeing it from the perspective of ours. They sent out the Category 1s and 2s as scouts, to get combat data. If the Cat 1s and 2s were enough, they would have just sent those through (and, I suspect, most of the civilizations they destroyed didn't require much effort). The Category 3s were the first ones that were used to attack Jaegers.

      Tresspasser was designed to destroy and spread fear.

      The Category 1s and 2s seem more varied than the upper Categories, indicating that the Precursors were experimenting at that stage, finding out which Kaiju types were most effective. Hence Karloff, Onibaba, and Scissure being very different to the likes of Knifehead.

      Knifehead was clearly designed to fight Jaegers; it was more cunning than its predecessors.

      Mutavore was designed to destroy the Kaiju Wall, and also took down 2 Jaegers.

      Otachi and Leatherback were designed to destroy Crimson Typhoon, Cherno Alpha and Striker Eureka.

      Scunner and Raiju were designed to stop Striker Eureka and Gipsy Danger reaching the portal.

      Slattern was sent after the other two; Gottlieb anticipated a triple event, but Slattern arrived later, likely because Slattern was taking more work, and because of its size. Slattern has elements of Knifehead (torso, arms), Scunner (bifurcated head), and Otachi (tails) in its design.

      The Kaiju are the Precursors weapons. I think they use creatures in the way we use machines, which explains their contempt for other lifeforms and civilizations; all other lifeforms are either tools or vermin to them. They perhaps viewed Jaegers as Kaiju, which maybe why it took them some years before they made creatures like Knifehead that went for the pilots. Through the eyes of the Precursors, the Jaegers are simply alien Kaiju.

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    • Come to think of it, if Mutavore was so god-damn effective, why the hell didnt another one show up?!?!

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    • Because the next batch was even better.

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    • Oh yeah, that was Otachi, Leatherback, and their sweet adorable little angel of a child that ATE HANNIBAL!!

      Kinda forgot about that loving family :/ oops

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    • He got better.

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    • Maybe Mutavore was the one that got Otachi pregnant... 

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    • For the record, "silicon-based" refers to the element silicon, with vaguely similar chemical properties to carbon.  Silicone, with an 'e' at the end, is a range of rubbery compounds.  They're not the same thing at all.  The quoted Wikipedia article even says at the top, "Not to be confused with the metalloid chemical element Silicon."

      The argument that punches work but nukes don't doesn't make any sense.  Humanity switched from nukes to jaegers as soon as they could because nuking an enemy attacking your populated areas is... NUKING YOUR OWN POPULATED AREAS.  Hell, the early kaiju might have been thrown out as cannon fodder entirely *because* the precursors found humans doing more damage to themselves than the kaiju did.

      I also think Trespasser is too awesome for Cat 1.  I'm assuming the first two nukes didn't miss by a mile, so even if they started small and escalated quickly, it's pretty impressive.  It also seems reasonable that its inappropriately high class may have been related to forcing open our end of the Breach in the first place, after which high-class kaiju would risk destabilizing the Breach until it grew (literally, being biotech) large enough.

      That's all guesswork, though, since all we really know is that it rampaged into San Francisco, up a few hundred miles to Sacramento, then wandered back to Oakland (which is right across the bay from SF!) to get nuked.  Thrice.

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    • It's been discussed before that Trespasser is larger than we would expect of a cat 1. However, there are other factors suggesting a fairly low category. Also, the prequel comic suggests he wasn't nuked three times, but hit with three nukes simultaneously. It's entirely possible that one or two would have been enough. Scissure survived one nuclear strike, but was killed by the second, for example.

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    • In what source does it accually say that it took three nukes to kill Trespasser?

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    • Honestly, I have no idea. The movie does reference "missiles", but in the same sentence as tanks and such (so it might not just be talking about nuclear ones). The prequel comic says that they "were getting ready to nuke it", which is where I concluded that the three nukes used to kill it must have been used simultaneously (otherwise it would have said "were getting ready to nuke it again"). It also says that the beast and Tendo's grandfather died at the same time (and the explosion was seen off in the distance). So if the nukes had been employed at separate times (one, then another, then a third), he would have known.

      However, I don't actually see a citation for the claim that three nukes were used. Perhaps it is from the novelization (with it's dubious canonicity)? Does anyone have that who can confirm or deny? What about Man, Monsters, & Machines?

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    • multiple sources, but it does not state if theyre all at once or seperate conclusively

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    • I'm not saying I don't believe you, but it's better if we have specifics (honestly, it doesn't matter to me, because without knowing the yields of them it makes no practical difference).

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    • Tresspasser wes probably hit with three small nukes to contain the damage. Slattern was hit with a massive nuke as big as Striker's back that didn't kill him.

      Did I miss something?

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    • and in some sources it states that tres was hit with nukes seperately likely meaning that one didnt work and 2 did

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    • My god the length of this debate is staggering....

      If we want to get skeptical we can even go as far as saying that Trespasser could've been tested with a VERY small nuke just to see what would happen and to minimilize damage, and then hit with a larger nuke that gravely wounded him, and then he was hit with another small nuke because they saw him twitch after thinking Trespasser dead and figured "OH SH*T GEEET'IM HE'S STILL MOOOOVIN'!" which would actually have amounted to him only being hit with 2 nukes to kill him, but it was stated to be three when the first two equaled a 500 ton elbow rocket to the face in damage in the end. 

      Being skeptical and using our imagination is fun and all and Pacific Rim in itself warrants the use of our imagination because, obviously, Giant friggen Robots vs. Monsters, but we really don't need to go this far into it as the official numbers are stated right there and SERIOUSLY delving into this would honestly lead to a never ending debate.

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    • 59.167.200.180 wrote:
      How come he had the size of a cat 3 or 4 then? and plus Onibaba was much smaller than Trespasser yet he is cat 2.


      The scale takes a lot of other things into consideration besides just size. 

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    • 174.65.21.59 wrote:
      My god the length of this debate is staggering....

      If we want to get skeptical we can even go as far as saying that Trespasser could've been tested with a VERY small nuke just to see what would happen and to minimilize damage, and then hit with a larger nuke that gravely wounded him, and then he was hit with another small nuke because they saw him twitch after thinking Trespasser dead and figured "OH SH*T GEEET'IM HE'S STILL MOOOOVIN'!" which would actually have amounted to him only being hit with 2 nukes to kill him, but it was stated to be three when the first two equaled a 500 ton elbow rocket to the face in damage in the end. 

      Being skeptical and using our imagination is fun and all and Pacific Rim in itself warrants the use of our imagination because, obviously, Giant friggen Robots vs. Monsters, but we really don't need to go this far into it as the official numbers are stated right there and SERIOUSLY delving into this would honestly lead to a never ending debate.

      I hate to be the one to say this, but that's kinda the general idea around here :)

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    • yeah, if u dont like discussing things this is not the place for u

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    • just want to say from a physics point of view a single nuke not killing any kaiju is ridiculous enough, the energy released by fat boy a 21 kiloton nuke used in ww2 was approx 8.8*10^13 Joules (this is a very small nuke relative to the ones nowadays) which is the same as an 2 ton car hitting you at 290,000 metres per second, this is a pure energy conversion of course, but if the kaiju were hit directly by the nuke so within the proximity of the centre of the eplosion by 1 metre; the temperatures in this range are always  well into the millions of dergrees celcius. Any atom at these temperatures would instantly destabalise and turn into plasma. It is impossible for any living creature to withstand these energies at close range. Any nuclear weapon wouold be overkill against a kaiju if hit directly which means if Trespasser survived even one nuke the pilot and detonator of the war head must be a total idiot].

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    • Kaiju happen to be extremely heat resistant for some reason. Plus that energy gets spread out fairly quickly. 

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    • yes i agree the energy gets spread out fairly quickly because its not focused at all but at  close ranges (like within 50 metres) the heat is typically 9000-11000 which is easily enough to melt all known elements.

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    • The Kaiju are very big so maybe they sacrificed some non-vital body part to shield the rest of them?

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    • 171.6.193.224 wrote:
      There were no classification systems at the time so even though Tresspasser is the first Kaiju to come to earth, could it possibly be the toughest Kaiju, tougher than even Slattern? It took 3 nukes to kill Trespasser but Slattern, though alive, looked very damaged from taking a single nuke strike that it probably wouldn't survive another.


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    • Basilisk Centauri wrote:
      Kaiju happen to be extremely heat resistant for some reason. Plus that energy gets spread out fairly quickly. 


      It wouldn't matter.

      No, seriously. In real life, the energy of a direct nuclear strike is enough that no matter can survive. Doesn't even matter what the Kaiju is made of. If it's matter, it's gone.

      But this is the movies, so Kaiju take individual nuclear missiles to the face and laugh about it. Scissure did, for example.

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    • Well... ok. Kaiju are so stupid they dont even understand the laws of physics. Proof: Raiju deepthroating to the point of bisecting himself... Otachi being pregnant, PLUS not flying untill it was too late... PLUS Mutavore ignoring his limits, and stats, and then smashing apart two Jaegers and a wall before taking a missile to the face and going "OH NOES!!!" and dying. 

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    • that answer in and of itself is stupid, the only thing i can think of is that whatever universe the precursors are from has some material or element that does not react in the same way as our laws of physics

      that and pac rim science has many many failings

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    • Basilisk Centauri wrote:
      Well... ok. Kaiju are so stupid they dont even understand the laws of physics. Proof: Raiju deepthroating to the point of bisecting himself... Otachi being pregnant, PLUS not flying untill it was too late... PLUS Mutavore ignoring his limits, and stats, and then smashing apart two Jaegers and a wall before taking a missile to the face and going "OH NOES!!!" and dying. 


      I continue to insist that what Raiju did (while stupid in hindsight) made perfect sense at the time (I'm pretty sure the last thing that he or any of us would have expected at that moment was for Gipsy to do what it did). Also, it was awesome.

      Also, someone hasn't been keeping up with Reaper's Blog 4 Thinkin', despite being one of the inspirations for it. I'm hurt.


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    • Well we know that Trespasser's body shape was successful because it carried over into Knifehead, Scunner and Slatterns looks kinda similar to his.

      Oh and Trespasser could destory crimson typhoon with his tail :3

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    • Sorry Reaper, I'll check up on it XD


      Ok... I've read it all and cant quite see what it is you wanted to point out ._.

      WAIT A SECOND... was it the part about Otachi being able to fly not such a great thing? Why did Coyote Tango have the twin mortars then?

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    • The point was that there wouldn't have been any benefit to Otachi flying earlier than she did. She was the attacker (whose primary mission was to destroy Jaegers), so flying as escape was out of the question. She probably couldn't fly forever (and would probably lose a ranged shootout), and could potentially be shot down (maybe even by conventional weapons). Meanwhile, her best weapons were melee-oriented. The only real benefit she got from being able to fly was that she could try to drop a Jaeger from a high height (which is risky because they might have a plasma cannon, sword, etc and therefore only a good idea if all other options are gone).

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    • ok. So why did Coyote have the twin mortars?

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    • For...Shooting stuff?

      I never said that ranged combat wasn't effective in Pacific Rim. It's just not a wise tactical choice for Otachi, because the Jaegers generally seem to be better at it (plasma cannons and mortars beat acid spit).

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    • and then emp happened

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    • it's pretty much unspoken canon that 3 low-yield tactical nukes were employed against Trespasser. As to the thermonuclear bomb intended to seal the breach and eventually used against Slattern: from what I saw (and this is purely from my very limited knowledge of Nuclear weapons) I reckoned it was around 50-megaton yield, which is equivalent to the Tzar Bomba as mentioned above. For those who don't know the Tzar Bomba was the LARGEST nuclear weapon EVER built, and the largest EVER detonated. It would've seemed smaller because at that kind of pressure stuff involving nuclear fusion gets real weird. I doubt even a Cat-5 Kaiju could take a direct Thermonuclear explosion, which is much more powerful than a nuclear explosion, Slattern just got lucky and wasn't exactly at ground zero, it had a few hundred yards and several hundred thousand tons of water between it and the epicenter of the blast.

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    • i've heard a lot of people saying the precursors were still developing their technology, and this is my response is they might have millions of years to develop their technology. if earth in the triassic was the first precursor colonization attempt ever, they would have had about 225 mya.

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    • 225,000,012 years is still better than 225,000,000.

      Slug gunner fan wrote:
      it's pretty much unspoken canon that 3 low-yield tactical nukes were employed against Trespasser. As to the thermonuclear bomb intended to seal the breach and eventually used against Slattern: from what I saw (and this is purely from my very limited knowledge of Nuclear weapons) I reckoned it was around 50-megaton yield, which is equivalent to the Tzar Bomba as mentioned above. For those who don't know the Tzar Bomba was the LARGEST nuclear weapon EVER built, and the largest EVER detonated. It would've seemed smaller because at that kind of pressure stuff involving nuclear fusion gets real weird. I doubt even a Cat-5 Kaiju could take a direct Thermonuclear explosion, which is much more powerful than a nuclear explosion, Slattern just got lucky and wasn't exactly at ground zero, it had a few hundred yards and several hundred thousand tons of water between it and the epicenter of the blast.


      I believe in the movie they claim it to be equivalent to 1.2 million tons of TNT, which would make it significantly stronger than a typical two stage nuclear bomb [[1]]. In fact, its power would be equal to the B83, the strongest nuclear bomb the United States keeps around today (which makes me wonder if for once they actually did do the research) [[2]].

      As near as I can tell (from my extremely limited research on the matter), the average U.S. nuclear weapon would have a yield of 300 kilotons of TNT [[3]]. Striker's bomb would therefore be four times as powerful.

      Of course, assuming that third source is correct (I got the sense that "average" is a somewhat meaningless term here due to the large variances in yields between various devices), we don't know that average nukes were used on Trespasser (a lot of nuclear missiles these days apparently carry multiple warheads for nuking multiple areas at a time, for example).

      But again, it's pretty silly to think that nukes used in a populated area (in the most populous state in the U.S.) would be anywhere near as powerful as a nuke designed to be detonated at the bottom of the ocean (where there is very little life) and destroy an interdimensional portal. One is intended to destroy a terrifying monster without destroying the whole state, and one doesn't give a Kaiju's rear end about collateral damage.

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    • "a lot of nuclear missiles these days apparently carry multiple warheads for nuking multiple areas at a time, for example" lolnope.

      Multiple warheads can't achieve that kind of spread unless you release them at such a height that they lose all sense of accuracy. the point behind the idea is to get several shots through so that hopefully at least one will bypass any missile defenses the enemy has... and if they used that kind of firepower (8+ nukes in a relatively small space) Trespasser probably only took one warhead to stop. It's stated in the novel that 3 tactical nukes were used, which only have one warhead because tac nukes are all about bunker-busting etc rather than city-cooking.

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    • Note that Trespasser would also not be affected by the devastating pressure Slattern experienced by being that close to a nuclear explosion underwater. 

      Here's a Discovery quote about underwater explosions

      "An underwater explosion doesn't throw shrapnel or objects as far as a land explosion, but the pressure it exerts is far stronger, and travels over a longer distance. Because the body's molecular density is almost the same as water's, the pressure wave would pass through it, hitting the parts filled with air and immediately damaging blood vessels, lungs and even the brain. Pressure waves would continue to bounce off the floor of the pool or lake, hitting the body over and over. If you were outside the shrapnel range for an exploding hand grenade on land, you'd probably be unhurt. At the same range for an underwater explosion, you'd probably be killed by the pressure wave."

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    • indeed

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    • Slug gunner fan wrote:
      "a lot of nuclear missiles these days apparently carry multiple warheads for nuking multiple areas at a time, for example" lolnope.

      Multiple warheads can't achieve that kind of spread unless you release them at such a height that they lose all sense of accuracy. the point behind the idea is to get several shots through so that hopefully at least one will bypass any missile defenses the enemy has... and if they used that kind of firepower (8+ nukes in a relatively small space) Trespasser probably only took one warhead to stop. It's stated in the novel that 3 tactical nukes were used, which only have one warhead because tac nukes are all about bunker-busting etc rather than city-cooking.

      Ah, my apologies. The illustration I saw of the W88 MIRV implied otherwise.

      It's moot, however, since something like that wouldn't have been used against Trespasser or in Operation: Pitfall.

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    • it cant be because the precursors only just started creating the strongest, it has to be cat I and it only looks strong because theres no jaegers to combat it, if we didnt create jaegers slattern or otachi would of destroyed unimagineable amounts of civilisation 

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    • Otachi wouldn't have been made then, she was an anti jaeger kaiju unlike Trespasser.

      I think Trespasser was sent out to see if we could be killed by one kaiju rather than a army of them.

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    • ^ good theory

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    • Slattern is the better

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    • This is not about Slattern, this is about Trespasser.

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    • all that matters is that nuke are not trsspasser and slatterns weak ponit but tresspasser is alot weaker that slattern cos slattern was an extermanator whill tresspasser was made to weaken the human race though tresspasser is cooler

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    • learn to spell at a 5th grade level plz


      tres wasnt even made to weaken the human race, since it was the first kaiju in human times, it was a scout and as such sent purely to test the capabilities of mankind to defend itself

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    • I wonder if Trespasser backtraced to report (which might be not be nessecary per se  because of the hive mind) or tried to flee and was effectively fought off (which might be an indirect signal that resources are very limited for the attackers).

      Because reconnaissance doesn't seem very effective when backtracing.

      Nonetheless it would be foolish to send the strongest first in any situation.

      However if there would be an unknown element present in these fantastic creatures I can imagine a bit why cutting them might be more effective than nuking them.

      Also a wild thought concerning the quote:

      Reaper with no name wrote:

      No, seriously. In real life, the energy of a direct nuclear strike is enough that no matter can survive. Doesn't even matter what the Kaiju is made of. If it's matter, it's gone.

      What if the Kajin aren't all matter but in-between (if possible)? They might weaken over time, but we just might not know. Which is fairly logical considering they are weapons. Many weapons (or ammo if you wish) isn't re-usable.

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    • So what else could it be made of if it isnt matter? :/

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    • Good question, But if matter & antimatter both exist can it exist simultaniously? is antimatter non-specific? Or does gold only react with anti-gold(like)?

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    • I think it's something along the lines of "If anti-matter touches matter, YOU BETTER GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE". Universally reactive in matter vs anti-matter. 

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    • oh well, it was the only thing I could come up with. Some kind of matter or element that wuold be extremely heat resistant and/or canceling radiation effects.

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    • Reaper's right though, anything in the blast would have been atomised/maybe turned into plasma (superhot gass)... anyways, Trespasser was probably smashing so much that he accidentally did a half-turn at some point and forgot to account for it and may have accidentally backtracked that way :)

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    • 94.215.178.117 wrote:
      Good question, But if matter & antimatter both exist can it exist simultaniously? is antimatter non-specific? Or does gold only react with anti-gold(like)?


      Let's say an atom of gold came into contact with an atom of anti-oxygen. The electrons of the gold will annihilate with the positrons (anti-electons) of the anti-oxygen, giving off lots of energy (note that positrons are positively charged, and therefore attracted to electrons). The protons of the gold would then annihilate with the anti-protons of the anti-oxygen with the same results (again, anti-protons are negative and therefore attracted to protons). There would be some stray protons and electrons left over (more particles in gold than oxygen or anti-oxygen), but any molecules they were part of would be finished.

      I believe I read somewhere that powerful magnetic fields can contain antimatter (which is how scientists are able to study it).

      However, that wouldn't make Kaiju any tougher. In terms of electromagnetic fields (which are responsible for holding molecules together and therefore control what we call "solidity"), antimatter bonds are no stronger than their matter counterparts. Two atoms of anti-carbon bonded together are just as strong as two atoms of carbon.

      And a creature made of both matter and antimatter? They'd be less stable than a man made of TNT holding a lit match. They'd have to have incredibly strong magnetic fields containing their antimatter parts (which would prevent them from interacting with the matter parts in any way) for absolutely no benefit (since the only possible interaction between matter and antimatter is annihilation). And if those magnetic fields ever flinch? Well, on a Kaiju-sized creature, with half of its mass antimatter...

      ...You know, that might actually be a pretty good way to end life on Earth (except those tiny communities around oceanic vents; they're independent from the sun).

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    • Next up; pair or Kaiju! One magnetic that stops the Anti-Matter one from touching things till they dump him in a city XD


      Man this thread has gotten long

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    • I can tell you exactly how well that would work.

      The antimatter Kaiju exits the breach and immediately annihilates with the water. As the Kaiju generating the magnetic fields is vaporized by the explosion, it wonders "Wait, wouldn't an explosion of this size at the surface have rendered the planet uninhabitable for our masters anywa-Oh god the pain make it sto-"

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    • Have you read the fic "Invasive Procedures"? yet XD That sounds EXACTLY like something they'd do!

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    • btw reaper, ur now held legally responsible when we find out tomorrow that basilisk was holding tnt with a lit match

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    • Not if I tell him it's a bad idea.

      Don't do it, Basilisk!

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    • Author of Invasive Procedures here (and most likely about to make a fool of myself.)


      The antimatter theory is pretty silly (and I may use that), but is it possible that something in the Kaiju (their blood, etc.) made the nukes perform at less-than-optimum efficiency?


      I have no idea if that's possible. Probably not. But could some of the conventional explosives needed to kickstart a nuke have malfunctioned in some way because of something related to the Kaiju?


      Nuclear physicist? Help?

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    • ^ (in Russian accent) maybe, is good theory

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    • Reaper with no name wrote:
      Not if I tell him it's a bad idea.

      Don't do it, Basilisk!

      Huh? *BOOM!!!*

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    • BIG BADA BOOM!

      (Which turns out to be from 5th Element, which is another movie everyone here should see.)


      Anyways. Slow clap.

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    • Basilisk Centauri wrote:
      Come to think of it, if Mutavore was so god-damn effective, why the hell didnt another one show up?!?!

      Otachi was Mutavore but bigger and with wings.

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    • Otachi is by far my fave Kaiju... just because she was awesome like that. Only problem was she was on the wrong side :(

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    • Mutavore desroyed 2 Jaegers without a scratch but looked like a punching bag compared to Striker... Striker is more powerful than I thought.

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    • Mutavore didnt kill any Jaegers as it turns out :(

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    • yep, beacham de-canonized that part of the novel on the 24th, he however did not clarify if muty killed only one or none prior to waltzing through the wall and then getting raijued by striker

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    • Lol so killing youself spectacularly is now known as "Raijuing" or "Getting Raijued" XD

      Perfect! Otachi got Raijued by a Boatsword!

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    • Maybe but he is the first Kaiju to attack humanity so he has to be a Category 1.

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    • Knifehead was a Cat-III and they were already producing Cat-IV's. Plus we've already had that particular discussion earlier in the thread somewhere XD

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    • Still, the trend is towards stronger and stronger Kaiju, so Trespasser being above category 2 would be very odd, to say the least.

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    • They kept feeding the Portal Kaiju so that it could get used to sending them over there... like "Training" it to level up or something. Perhaps Tresspasser was a bigger one that gave it the "Levels" needed to secure the portal end over there long enough to send the next one?

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    • They weren't "feeding" the portal anything. They were sending things through.

      Common sense would dictate that if the portal is "weak", you send in something small to avoid overstressing it. Then, as it stabilizes, send bigger and bigger stuff (and why would sending stuff through the portal make it stronger? If anything, sending things through the Breach would put more stress on its structure).

      After all, who would feed their infant child a whole chicken?

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    • Otachi :3

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    • I yeah look at my thread :3 http://pacificrim.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:10262

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    • Oh yeah*

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    • Trepasser took the most tactical nukes to take down out of the first four kaiju, thats saying something isn't it?

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    • I don't think we know how many nukes were used on the second and third Kaiju. And again, without knowing the yields involved, we can't say anything for sure.

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    • 99.236.209.87 wrote:
      Author of Invasive Procedures here (and most likely about to make a fool of myself.)


      The antimatter theory is pretty silly (and I may use that), but is it possible that something in the Kaiju (their blood, etc.) made the nukes perform at less-than-optimum efficiency?




      Well..Not unless the environment these babies grew up in was extremely hostile. So that the entire species of Kaiju is pretty much immune to extreme pressure, heat and radiation due to evolution. It would explain why they placed the portal at the bottom of the sea. Punches and swords could be more effective because our normal atmosferic pressure is way lower than what the Kaiju are used to?



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    • Ah, so this is where that one went.

      Reaper with no name wrote:
      99.236.209.87 wrote:
      Author of Invasive Procedures here (and most likely about to make a fool of myself.)


      The antimatter theory is pretty silly (and I may use that), but is it possible that something in the Kaiju (their blood, etc.) made the nukes perform at less-than-optimum efficiency?


      I have no idea if that's possible. Probably not. But could some of the conventional explosives needed to kickstart a nuke have malfunctioned in some way because of something related to the Kaiju?


      Nuclear physicist? Help?
      I'm not a nuclear physicist, but there aren't any materials known to man that would have effects like that. Of course, who knows in fiction? This is the same movie that pretended a solid iron hull would be better than an alloyed one.

      However, the issue doesn't seem to be that nukes cease to work as well as they should; the Kaiju are just that tough, and hollywood underestimates the power of nuclear explosions.

      If you're writing a fic and you really need a way to explain why the Kaiju are so resistant to nukes in a way that makes sense (and really, you don't; the bar for scientific accuracy is so incredibly low in this movie that trying to be realistic would just make people wonder about all the other stuff that doesn't make sense, like the giant robots), you could say it's an effect of the materials in the anteverse, a weird side effect of silicon biochemistry (not like we have any examples of it to study), or Precursor biotechnology.


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    • Tekk99 wrote:
      Trepasser took the most tactical nukes to take down out of the first four kaiju, thats saying something isn't it?

      Overkill is actually advisable in this kind of situation though. :)

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    • I doubt they would really make every nukes power different.

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    • Tekk99 wrote:
      I doubt they would really make every nukes power different.


      There's a huge spectrum of nukes, as mentioned before in this thread.

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    • Tekk99 wrote:
      I doubt they would really make every nukes power different.

      Like how they wouldn't make every bullet's power different?

      Or every Jaeger different?

      Or every Kaiju different?

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    • Reaper with no name, I just thought all the tacitical nukes used on the first four were of equal power.

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    • But why would you assume that?

      If I told you four people were shot, would you assume that each one was hit by 9x19 Parabellums? Would you be surprised when I then told you that one was hit by a .45 ACP, another by a .357 Magnum, one by multiple .22 LRs, and the last by a 12 gauge deer slug (which all have wildly differing characteristics)?

      Nuclear weapons, like bullets, have wildly different capabilities depending on the type used. A 9mm might annoy an elephant. A blast from a 2 bore shotgun will put it down. Some nuclear weapons are equivalent a hundred thousand tons of TNT or less. Others are worth over a million tons of TNT.

      To say that one unspecified nuke is equivalent to another unspecified nuke is like saying that a bullet from a rifle is equivalent to the bullet of an artillery piece.

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    • TRESPASSER

      3 nukes, but they could be tactical nuclear weapons. The US have the B61, with a variable yield of 0.3-340 kilotons.

      By comparison:

      Little Boy, the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima, had a yield of 13-18 kt (kilotons of TNT). 

      Fat Man, the Nagasaki one, was stronger: 21 kt

      So the US might have dropped B61s, rigged for less than, like, 5 kt. Mighty blasts, but much weaker than Little Boy.

      SLATTERN

      The largest nuclear weapon ever detonated by the US was during the Castle Bravo test: 15 megatons (1 megaton = 1000 kilotons, so Castle Bravo was 1000x stronger than Little Boy)

      The largest nuclear weapon ever detonated was by the Soviets: Tsar Bomba, 50-58 megatons. It is insanely powerful, it destroyed everything within a range of 35 kilometers (22 miles) during it's test.

      The Tsar Bomba was probably not the one used, probably something much smaller than even Castle Bravo, but even a 5 megaton bomb would make the B61 pale in comparison, even at full yield. It can't have been much higher than that, otherwise Gipsy Danger, would never resist being so close.

      In other words: 

      Trespasser - tactical nukes, took several to die

      Slattern - didn't die from a bomb that makes the Hiroshima Destroyer look like a grenade in comparison. He is the toughest Kaiju.


      While I'm here, let me explain why the Kaiju are vulnerable to the Jaegers. What powers a Jaeger, at least the first ones? A nuclear reactor. In fact, that is why they were created: we needed "a new means of kinetic force -- as poweful as a nuclear bomb, but more focused and adaptive". 

      Kaiju_Attack_on_Sydney?file=Fourth_Attack.jpg

      Also, the Kaiju can simply be super-heat-resistant (something to do with being silicon based perhaps), but less resistant against kinetic force.

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    • Sorry, the image link didn't work:

      http://pacificrim.wikia.com/wiki/Kaiju_Attack_on_Sydney (read the comic image)

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    • I think that Tresspasser is as strong as Slattern. Begin and end with a cat. 5.

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    • Sorry, but the canon disagrees. 10+ is higher than 5.

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    • Dynamicdinosaur wrote:
      I think that Tresspasser is as strong as Slattern. Begin and end with a cat. 5.

      They weren't gonna end with Slattern if they could help it, they only did because the Breach closed. (And it's opening again in the sequel, no doubt)

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    • A nuke is little more than an insanely powerful release of energy. Imensely powerful but completely unfocused. It superheats surrounding matter, usually air or water, and sends an extremely powerful kinnetic wave. It does not simply destroy matter within a certian range.

      A high-tech 150ft blade has one simple mechanic. It puts jet-liner levels of force into a point 10 to 15 ft long but as narrow as a dime. Simply put, if absolutely nothing else, it will penetrate.

      Besides, if we're argueing about slattern, he just took a nuke. It may not have killed him, but it sure as hell did plenty of damage to his hide. It's not inconcievable that these two mechanics cooperated.

      Punches don't kill. They bring pain, they obscure senses, they slow and weaken, and they piss things off. They let you lead them away from people. They let you pull out your OP weapon that everyone's asking why you don't start with it. They make the brute that can rip your gun from your body go into a mad rush so you can unload into him.

      Finally, a jaeger can do one thing that nothing else we have could ever do. It gives the kaiju something else to fight and a reason to chase it somewhere else. No attack, no missile, no laser, no tank, could do that. A jeager can not only do that, it can drag the damn thing out of the city instead.

      The jaeger does not replace weapons and tools. It upgrades the magnatude on which we can utilise those tools. Can you make defense system that can resist the charge of a kaiju while putting 10 plasma rounds into it's side under the arm at an upward angle? Can that same system deal with a juggernaut that just avoids a fight

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    • Of course you can. It's called a giant tank. Or, you know, 10 slightly smaller tanks all armed with plasma cannons.

      But that would only work in real life. In movies, the humanoid form is always superior, and so only the Jaegers can effectively fight the Kaiju (as it should be, because it's much cooler that way).

      Also, I'm pretty sure that this thread is supposed to be about Trespasser, not the (lack of) realism in Pacific Rim.

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    • What they need are the Bolos from Keith Laumer's novels; the Mark XIV and after packed Hellbores, which are weapons that shoot a small piece of star at just under the speed of light over hundreds of miles.

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    • Here's a link I want to show you all about nuclear weapons.

      http://www.neatorama.com/2011/07/21/tank-survives-a-nuclear-blast/#!iv2WX


      Nuclear weapons work by pressure, heat, and radiation. Large armored targets are resistant to the former, somewhat resistant to the latter (as heat seems to be a major component of many anti-kaiju weapons, I suspect this is the main killer against them), and I don't think the third will do squat. So the size of the nuke matters a lot- a small one will only produce an amount of heat and pressure that a kaiju can survive just like that tank did. You need one big enough to overcome those issues.

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    • I still say: HELLBORES.

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    • Slug gunner fan wrote:
      I still say: HELLBORES.


      I haven't read the books, but it sounds like Hellbores would destroy more city on their own than all the Kaiju combined.

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    • Maybe the Nuke that heavily damaged Slattern was twice as powerful than Nukes that killed Trespasser

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    • A Category VI Kaiju wrote:
      Maybe the Nuke that heavily damaged Slattern was twice as powerful than Nukes that killed Trespasser


      Oh, certainly. The Trespasser nukes were described as 'tactical' warheads. Tactical nuclear weapons are normally a few kilotons, 10-25 being common. 1.2 megatons is large for a strategic nuke.

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    • Also, it was underwater, which more efficiently transfers the energy of an explosion (thanks, Mythbusters!).

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    • I wonder if the Precursors are good friends with the Tyrranids...

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    • THERMOnuclear vs Nuclear. Whats the difference?

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    • A thermonuclear weapon uses the heat from a fission reaction to generate a fusion reaction.

      In other words, bigger boom.

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    • BOOM!!!

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    • Fission, Fussion, Reaction. D'OH! Things i hate from my childhood

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    • You know, you can edit your posts.

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    • Basilisk Centauri wrote:
      I wonder if the Precursors are good friends with the Tyrranids...

      (makes Carnifex Kaiju on the PR fanon wiki)

      Anyway, Trespasser is still a badass, even if other Kiju are tougher he was still FIRST, and that counts for something. Debate closed.

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    • I love Trespasser than any other Kaiju

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    • A Category VI Kaiju wrote:
      I love Trespasser than any other Kaiju


      I think you accidentally a word.

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    • Let's start another vs-themed-flame-war !!!

      Trespasser versus Anguirus from the Godzilla movies, lol ^^ ^^ ^^

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    • How about... NO. 

      There's plenty of other threads for that anyway :P

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    • Trespasser would win :D

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    • Dresspasser

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    • 171.6.193.224 wrote:
      There were no classification systems at the time so even though Tresspasser is the first Kaiju to come to earth, could it possibly be the toughest Kaiju, tougher than even Slattern? It took 3 nukes to kill Trespasser but Slattern, though alive, looked very damaged from taking a single nuke strike that it probably wouldn't survive another.

      Keep in mind, the nuke that messed up Slattern was a payload.  It has probably at least 10 times the explosive power of just a plain old nuclear bomb.

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    • Well Trespasser's category is not V and hes not the weakest looking thing around COUGH Karloff COUGH.

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    • Tekk99 wrote:
      Well Trespasser's category is not V and hes not the weakest looking thing around COUGH Karloff COUGH.


      Humph. Well, at least Karloff died in a cooler way ::sparks giant Internet debate over whether death-by-Jaeger or death-by-nuke is cooler::

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    • Tanking nukes its way cooler bro :D

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    • It's definitely debateable. Getting nuked is one helluva way to go, but if you're looking for movie-quality stuff, you need the giant robots. I've headbutted a nuke and survived! :D (see Ring of Fire) 

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    • I used to be an Earth-threatening Kaiju like you, but then I took a Striker Eureka to the face. 

      ~Mutavore's Gravestone

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    • lol

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    • ZeroSD wrote:

      A Category VI Kaiju wrote:
      Maybe the Nuke that heavily damaged Slattern was twice as powerful than Nukes that killed Trespasser


      Oh, certainly. The Trespasser nukes were described as 'tactical' warheads. Tactical nuclear weapons are normally a few kilotons, 10-25 being common. 1.2 megatons is large for a strategic nuke.

      Da.

      As well, if I'm not wrong someone reeaaaaaaaalllllyyyy way up there said that Trespasser is tougher because it was killed by 3 nukes, whereas a Cat.4 (Otachi W00T) was killed by a boatsword and punches. Well, may I remind you, Otachi was killed by not a boatsword, not punches, but a full Jaeger-size mega-sword. And before you point out that a nuke has more destructive power than a big sword, let me remind you that nukes are ALWAYS detonated in the air above the target. This would have dissipated a lot of the force from the blast, which in return would cause less damage to a Kaiju. A sword, though it might have less destructive power to start with, applies that power to an infitismally smaller area, which in return does more damage. This is why 3 shotgun blasts from about 50 m away does less damage than a knife or sword to the face.

      The same applies to the Slattern single-nuke thing. Not only was the Slattern nuke a heavy specially-designed payload, certainly much more powerful than the hastily-gathered warheads used on Trespasser, it was detonated RIGHT IN SLATTERN'S FACE. So now the example becomes 3 faraway shotgun blasts versus a point blank-range destroyer 5-inch shrapnel/cluster shell.

      Do the math.

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    • 171.6.193.224 wrote:
      There were no classification systems at the time so even though Tresspasser is the first Kaiju to come to earth, could it possibly be the toughest Kaiju, tougher than even Slattern? It took 3 nukes to kill Trespasser but Slattern, though alive, looked very damaged from taking a single nuke strike that it probably wouldn't survive another.

      If we are really going to debate this than I think we have gotten pretty desperat in the forums...

      The only thing I see is how he could be strong enough to break the rim barrier.

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    • T050189 wrote:

      ZeroSD wrote:

      A Category VI Kaiju wrote:
      Maybe the Nuke that heavily damaged Slattern was twice as powerful than Nukes that killed Trespasser

      Oh, certainly. The Trespasser nukes were described as 'tactical' warheads. Tactical nuclear weapons are normally a few kilotons, 10-25 being common. 1.2 megatons is large for a strategic nuke.

      Da.

      As well, if I'm not wrong someone reeaaaaaaaalllllyyyy way up there said that Trespasser is tougher because it was killed by 3 nukes, whereas a Cat.4 (Otachi W00T) was killed by a boatsword and punches. Well, may I remind you, Otachi was killed by not a boatsword, not punches, but a full Jaeger-size mega-sword. And before you point out that a nuke has more destructive power than a big sword, let me remind you that nukes are ALWAYS detonated in the air above the target. This would have dissipated a lot of the force from the blast, which in return would cause less damage to a Kaiju. A sword, though it might have less destructive power to start with, applies that power to an infitismally smaller area, which in return does more damage. This is why 3 shotgun blasts from about 50 m away does less damage than a knife or sword to the face.

      The same applies to the Slattern single-nuke thing. Not only was the Slattern nuke a heavy specially-designed payload, certainly much more powerful than the hastily-gathered warheads used on Trespasser, it was detonated RIGHT IN SLATTERN'S FACE. So now the example becomes 3 faraway shotgun blasts versus a point blank-range destroyer 5-inch shrapnel/cluster shell.

      Do the math.

      And don't forget the effect that water has on explosions (it transfers the energy much better than air, making them significantly more destructive).

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    • Plus, it is implied tresspasser was the weakest.

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    • Bioniclezilla76 wrote:
      Plus, it is implied tresspasser was the weakest.


      Where is that implied? Even though it was the first, that doesn't mean it was the weakest. Normally, first=less powerful (zergling<ultralisk). But, it was larger than Onibaba, a Catagory II, in weight and size. We know it wasn't as toxic as later kaiju (Yeye Choi was poisoned, not disinigrated) and didn't have any special atributes that made it more dangerous {Knifehead's bladenose} (as far as we know). I personally think it was Catagory II-III.

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    • Glitchrr36 wrote:

      Bioniclezilla76 wrote:
      Plus, it is implied tresspasser was the weakest.


      Where is that implied? Even though it was the first, that doesn't mean it was the weakest. Normally, first=less powerful (zergling<ultralisk). But, it was larger than Onibaba, a Catagory II, in weight and size. We know it wasn't as toxic as later kaiju (Yeye Choi was poisoned, not disinigrated) and didn't have any special atributes that made it more dangerous {Knifehead's bladenose} (as far as we know). I personally think it was Catagory II-III.

      Newt said every Kaiju to come out was tougher than the last basically. There aren't categories with size either.

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    • while they do tend to get stronger, the precursors could have sent a moderatly powerful kaiju to scout, and see what the most powerful weapons humanity posses

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    • Glitchrr36 wrote:
      while they do tend to get stronger, the precursors could have sent a moderatly powerful kaiju to scout, and see what the most powerful weapons humanity posses

      The point of the discussion is to figure out if Axe Head is the toughest. I'd say no.

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    • Glitchrr36 wrote:
      while they do tend to get stronger, the precursors could have sent a moderatly powerful kaiju to scout, and see what the most powerful weapons humanity posses


      Exactly. It's called a probe. The military will send out a patrol of five or six guys to see what the enemy's strength is. The U.S. and U.K. were up against a never before seen foe, and had to make use of what was available. Since this was a new enemy and powerful; of course it took several days to figure out a way to destroy it. So I don't think Trespasser was the toughest Kaiju because we were not ready to deal with such a threat.

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    • Hyperion Gold wrote:

      Glitchrr36 wrote:
      while they do tend to get stronger, the precursors could have sent a moderatly powerful kaiju to scout, and see what the most powerful weapons humanity posses


      Exactly. It's called a probe. The military will send out a patrol of five or six guys to see what the enemy's strength is. The U.S. and U.K. were up against a never before seen foe, and had to make use of what was available. Since this was a new enemy and powerful; of course it took several days to figure out a way to destroy it. So I don't think Trespasser was the toughest Kaiju because we were not ready to deal with such a threat.

      Kind if what I thought sometimes.

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    • It isn't the toughest, but it was tough.  you make your scout able to send enough info back, so that future attacks are more effective. Plus, in every trend, you will have outliers.

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    • Glitchrr36 wrote:
      It isn't the toughest, but it was tough.  you make your scout able to send enough info back, so that future attacks are more effective.


      Precisely. Remember the Hive-mind connection was how Trespasser sent back info to the Precursors so that they could make better Kaijus to send into the next battle.

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    • Glitchrr36 wrote:
      It isn't the toughest, but it was tough.  you make your scout able to send enough info back, so that future attacks are more effective. Plus, in every trend, you will have outliers.


      This is true, but not especially useful to the discussion, because it doesn't define what qualifies as "tough".

      The Precursors may well have thought that Armor 4 (what Trespasser had) was unstoppable. Compared to category IVs, however, it isn't so special.

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    • The stats were from a mobile game, until we get word from Travis himself or gorilla del taco I will see it as an error.

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    • By that logic, shouldn't we also assume that his size and weight were errors, since they clearly don't make sense for the first kaiju (and we have examples of such things being incorrect in much higher canonical sources), which would destroy the entire argument behind Trespasser being anything other than the weakest category I?

      You're shooting yourself in the foot, here.

      Also, someone needs to draw gorilla del taco. Internet, make me proud.

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    • Yeah well I think Trespasser is taller than the stats shown, and the weight in PR is fucked up seriously...

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    • But if Trespasser's size and weight are innaccurate, that would mean we would have no reason to believe he was anything other than a category 1 (and likely the weakest one, at that).

      If you want to argue that Trespasser is something other than a category I or II, you need the information given to be accurate to have a leg to stand on, since that's the only shred of evidence supporting it.

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    • How about we ask Travis, both of us so we can find out what his category and stats are. I've tried but failed because he ignores every thing about Trespasser it seems.

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    • He said that trespasser was before the catagory system, so it doesn't have one. I like to assume the sizes are accurate, and the weights aren't (Godzilla's 50k ton weight is more accurate than scunners 2k.)

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    • lol..... It was me that asked that question XD

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    • why dont we all just say that he was really cool but not cat. 5 worthy. Cool?


      Cool.

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    • Can we say that he was a Category 1? I have no proof, but it's only logical to assume such a thing since he was the very first Kaiju to emerge from the breach. Hundun is probably another Category 1, since he came second.

      It's probably also safe to say that he wasn't killed for 6 days (was it that long?) because he caught everyone by surprise, and it was as if they were still "recovering from a punch" and figuring out how to react. Also, the fact that he took 3 nukes was probably because they were a) weak or b) not really a direct hit (like maybe they hit him, but not like instant death, maybe more like missing pieces of flesh and whatnot).

      Well, I said what I had to say. KTHNXBAI.

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    • His size says otherwise

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    • Glitchrr36 wrote:
      His size says otherwise

      That's what she said

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    • 24.16.234.249 wrote:
      Can we say that he was a Category 1? I have no proof, but it's only logical to assume such a thing since he was the very first Kaiju to emerge from the breach. Hundun is probably another Category 1, since he came second.

      It's probably also safe to say that he wasn't killed for 6 days (was it that long?) because he caught everyone by surprise, and it was as if they were still "recovering from a punch" and figuring out how to react. Also, the fact that he took 3 nukes was probably because they were a) weak or b) not really a direct hit (like maybe they hit him, but not like instant death, maybe more like missing pieces of flesh and whatnot).

      Well, I said what I had to say. KTHNXBAI.

      Logic would dictate that he was a category 1 for the reasons you've stated. His toxicity also appears to be low, and he certainly isn't very menacing by Kaiju standards. However, his size and weight imply category 3 or 4.

      Sadly, without confirmation one way or another, we cannot list him as any given category.

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    • Reaper with no name wrote:

      24.16.234.249 wrote:
      Can we say that he was a Category 1? I have no proof, but it's only logical to assume such a thing since he was the very first Kaiju to emerge from the breach. Hundun is probably another Category 1, since he came second.

      It's probably also safe to say that he wasn't killed for 6 days (was it that long?) because he caught everyone by surprise, and it was as if they were still "recovering from a punch" and figuring out how to react. Also, the fact that he took 3 nukes was probably because they were a) weak or b) not really a direct hit (like maybe they hit him, but not like instant death, maybe more like missing pieces of flesh and whatnot).

      Well, I said what I had to say. KTHNXBAI.

      Logic would dictate that he was a category 1 for the reasons you've stated. His toxicity also appears to be low, and he certainly isn't very menacing by Kaiju standards. However, his size and weight imply category 3 or 4.

      Sadly, without confirmation one way or another, we cannot list him as any given category.

      Good point. However, this whole size and weight talk basically states that he would be better than the Category 4 Otachi. Otachi is 95 ft (21 m) smaller, and is 10 tons lighter. Does that mean that Trespasser would be better than a Category 4 in a way?

      Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not arguing with anybody here, I'm just pointing a couple of things out.

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    • Catagory is not necessarily determined by mass. It also factors in toxcicity and ambiant radiation from the breach. We know he wasn't very toxic. (i have other things to do, so this will be finished later)

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    • Watched the movie for the first time last night... can't believe I never went to see it in theaters.  Loved it insanely, had to know everything, came here ^_^

      Now...

      I don't know if this has been said before... I'm still reading this thread. (Loving it completely)

      But I feel the need to talk about something I've seen mentioned many times on several threads at this point.

      People have been arguing how kaiju which take several nukes to go down (Trespasser, Hundun, Kaiceph, Scissure) suddenly get replaced by kaiju that die when you punch them (Everything else).

      Because I've yet to see anyone else say this, I would like to say: We never see a kaiju die through brawling alone.

      Knifehead is shot with the plasma cannon several times.

      Leatherback is beaten into submission and shot with the plasma cannon several times.

      Otachi has a wing cut off at 50,000 and plummets to earth.  I can't imagine a 2,700 ton creature would survive a 9.5 mile fall.

      Raiju is cut in half.

      Slattern takes the full force of Gipsy's nuclear turbine venting fuel in its chest and is presumably cooked from the inside out.

      Beyond those 5 that appear in battle against Jaegers, you only ever see Mutavore, which dies only after being shot with Striker Eureka's anti-kaiju whatevers.



      Too, if you disregard the idea that the square-cube law makes bipedal mechs impractical (if not impossible), at least consider the idea that they DO have that ridiculous mass.  Assuming ~2/3 of a mech's weight is concentrated above the waist and that the waist can rotate, Gipsy Danger can put approximately 1,300 tons of whatever it's made of into a good right hook.  I can't claim to know how fast that fist travels, but it's still a hell of a lot of force.  Look at what a train does to a car or truck, scale that up to 250-foot mech v 250-foot kaiju and you have the general idea.  I wouldn't be surprised if a kaiju could suffer serious injury at the hands of a working Jaeger, even if beating one to death with fists alone never happens.


      No other Kaijus appear on-screen in battle with Jaegers, so nothing can be said about how they die.  But taking Gipsy Danger's battle with Otachi as guidance (reaching into the thing's mouth and bodily ripping her acid sac right out) I feel it's safe to say the Jaeger's strength lends it to more than punching.  The strength demonstrated by the machines seems sufficient to grab a kajui's upper and lower jaw and tear them apart, for instance.

      Why Nukes?  Well, though it isn't stated in the film, the military's anti-armor rounds can't pierce the kaiju's thick hide.  Possibly they just weren't using ordinace large enough?  That said, you don't need to break skin with a punch to do serious damage.  Some human boxers die in the ring without ever bleeding once.

      And now I go back to the top of this thread to continue reading.

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    • It's all about pressure and area with the punching. 

      I think it's something like "Pressure is equal to force divided by area"? With a Jaeger sized punch, you've got the force of a nuke, but in the area of it's fist. And Karloff, the first Kaiju to be killed by a Jaeger, was killed via Punching :)

      And yes, while the Square-Cube-Law is really damn annoying, Hollywood physics ignore it and untill we try to build a Jaeger IRL, we're allowed to ignore it too. 

      But, as always, sometimes you need to get creative when smashing giant monsters that can adapt to counter specific Jaegers. (See Otachi being an Anti-Crimson-Typhoon)

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    • From "Scientific American": At full burn in the clip, the jaeger Gipsy Danger’s fist hits the kaiju’s face not much faster than an average human punch, but velocity matters. If going 50% faster than a good human punch at the time of impact, the 1.5 million pound arm would be carrying 125,000,000 Joules of kinetic energy. Being on the receiving end of a jaeger rocket punch would then be like getting hit in the face with a Boeing 747 going 60 miles per hour—the same as typical runway exit speeds,....

      ...A rocket-powered punch isn’t a crazy science fiction scheme either. Kinetic energy is more affected by velocity than mass. In the equations, the velocity term is squared—or multiplied by itself—meaning that doubling the speed will quadruple the kinetic energy (while doubling the mass only doubles the energy). The elbow rocket then allows Gispsy Danger to punch far beyond its weight....

      The thrust required to accelerate the arm is huge too. It would be equivalent to a Saturn V rocket, meaning that the jaeger could theoretically throw a one-kilogram object directly into space with the energy behind its punch.


      Jaegers are very very strong. I suppose that's to be expected when you have to fight Kaiju face-to-face.

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    • Rocket-Boatswording FTW!!!

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    • Much thanks to Reaper with no name for his brilliant writing and analysis of the film... love reading your work, bro. But regrettably, I do have to take issue with some of your conclusions.

      Reaper with no name wrote:
      Slattern's hide was penetrated by a chainsword, even though the nuke failed to do so.
      Right there we have proof that attacks from giant robots (such as punches, swords, and cargo ships) can inflict damage that a nuclear weapon cannot do in this story. Does it make sense? Absolutely not.

      I would call that believable. The two key forces created by a nuclear explosion involved in doing damage are pressure and heat. Perhaps the average kaiju skin can withstand some of that heat and pressure. But a sword does not rely on heat, so ignore that. It does rely on pressure, though, and if you can put a few hundred tons of arm force onto a point an inch across… I can’t see that not penetrating kaiju.

      Reaper with no name wrote:
      In fact, given the way biology works (which admittedly has no place in a movie about giant robots), a giant animal living for a thousand years would actually be weaker because of what the process of aging does to living things. Also, it's worth noting that we do get to see a glimpse of the Kaiju creation process in the Kaiju drifts. They appear to be being literally put together (or "grown" on one piece at a time). Given this knowledge, logic would dictate that if age could make a Kaiju stronger, the Precursors would have built them to be at a later stage in their life cycle (which is a roundabout way of saying "build them to be old in the first place").

      Logic? Logic?! You're talking about an alien-created living machine created by an alien, not only from another world, but from another dimension. How do you know the Precursors think the way humans do? I can think of several reasons that would negate the 'build them to be old in the first place' idea...

      One, as confirmed by Travis Beacham offsite (can't remember the link), time passes in the Anteverse in a different fashion than it does in our universe (though that doesn't explain, again, why the Precursors fail to drop 50 on earth at once... perhaps the wormhole is not stable? Hermann Gottlieb seems to think this is the case.).

      Two, what's to say the Precursors don't think building a kaiju young and letting it mature is the better option? Perhaps building them old makes them senile or depressed or something.

      Three, again, blue and orange morality. The Precursors are aliens. We can be pretty sure they don't speak any human language, but in the same vein, what's to say they understand anything the way we do? They might not even have the same concept of mathematics as we do. Heck, they live in another universe. What’s not to say that, in their universe, pi equals exactly 3, instead of 3.141 etc etc? What's to say their universe evan has a pi? When Norman drifts with the Kaiju brain, he learns that the Precursors are colonists. They want to come to earth, use all the resources they can get their hands on, and move on. But... what resources? We as humans have almost completely stripped the planet of anything we would find useful. More than half the world's oil supplies are gone, more than 80% of the planet's forests have been destroyed in the last 1,000 years, gold is increasingly hard to find... etc. It goes on. If they wanted those, why not move in before humanity started stealing them? If there are other things they want, Hydrogen, Helium, Oxygen, etc... why Earth? Those things are far more abundant elsewhere. They are and can only be entirely inscrutable.

      Four, when Newton Geiszler drifts with the kaiju brain, there's a brief segment which quite clearly shows that the Precursors have at least four more Knifehead kaiju in 'storage'. Of course, they never get deployed, so what? Ultimately none of what's been discussed matters at all.

      Reaper with no name wrote:
      We know that there is an official set of numbers for Trespasser which places his armor at 4 (which is fairly low by Kaiju standards). We also know that Slattern's official stats are 10+ across the board. Even if the numbers weren't correct, there would be no reason to believe that they were wildly off-base (otherwise, why would they have even been published?). This suggests that Slattern is far tougher than Trespasser.

      They probably were published to appease some human sense to have everything categorized... And I’m talking the idea that these numbers are purely a movie-marketing tie-in. That doesn't make the categories any more or less valid. The numbers could be dictated purely by narrative, as opposed to any relevant information. The kaiju 'get bigger as they go along,' so to speak, which flat-out means the last one to show up HAS to have bigger numbers than the first one to show up. This could be the only reason any of the numbers are what they are. If Slattern had numbers equaling or smaller than those of Trespasser (or ANY non-cat5 kaiju), then the tension of 'omg biggest one ever' goes right out the window and plummets into the waiting dustbin where the sprawled remains of the square-cube law already lay broken and groaning.

      Reaper with no name wrote:
      Having just picked up Pacific Rim: Tales From Year Zero, I can also add some things from it that we know about Trespasser. Trespasser was wounded by aircraft using miniguns (enough to bleed). The fact that bullets of such a small caliber were able to make Trespasser bleed suggest he isn't especially tough.

      I think we picked up different copies, then... my copy specifically notes that ordinary heavy rounds bouce right off it. When you first see it bleed in the book, what you're looking at is the monster being attacked by several SPECTRE gunships. These do indeed have 25mm miniguns on board, but they also have 40mm cannons and a 105mm artillery piece. Given that the fighters in the film are F-22s, which are armed with 20mm cannons that clearly do not harm the thing, and the fighters in the book are either F-35s (25mm) or F/A-18s (20mm) (though the F-35 is more likely) which also do not harm the thing, I'm more inclined to think the damage there is being done by the 105mm cannons instead of anything else. Note also the decrease in blood flow after the gunships bugger off and leave it to the fighters.

      In addition to this, the comic book is a little... off-key in its representation of the battle. Becket clearly states in the film it took 6 days to kill the thing, but the comic book would suggest less than a day passes between Trespasser arriving and the first mushroom cloud appearing.

      Reaper with no name wrote:
      We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser has been around for a long time (the Precursor MO suggests the opposite).

      Precursor MO is as impossible to understand as anything can get. You can't reliably claim anything on this field in either direction.

      Reaper with no name wrote:
      We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser is unusually tough (the fact that he was wounded by minigun bullets suggests the opposite).

      See my statements above. Minigun shminigun. There's more evidence against minigun damage than there is evidence for it.

      I did not quote EVERYTHING you said, only those parts that I feel were unfounded. That said, plenty of what you said makes a good deal of sense (We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser is a category 5, We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser is affected differently by punches, blades, and cargo ships than other Kaiju, etc.)

      COME AT ME BRO

      <3

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    • Oh, I forgot to say!

      Reaper with no name wrote:
      In fact, given the way biology works (which admittedly has no place in a movie about giant robots), a giant animal living for a thousand years would actually be weaker because of what the process of aging does to living things.

      This is based on the assumption that a kaiju's lifespan is no more than a few thousand years.  What evidence is there for that?  How do you know they haven't been designed to live for a million years?  If that were the case, surely a kaiju of a mere 1,000 years has a lot more growing to do.

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    • AblueXKRS wrote: "...what resources? We as humans have almost completely stripped the planet of anything we would find useful. More than half the world's oil supplies are gone,...."

      Not so. We humans have mined and drilled for most of the Earth's resources on land. Once you go beyond the edge of the continental shelf; it's all untouched wilderness out there. There are untold trillions of barrels of oil beneath the seabed. Unknown tons worth of gold, platinum, diamonds, iron, bauxite, etc. beneath the sea floor. We can't get to it because of the tremendous depths involved.

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    • I've had another interesting idea...

      Given that it has been officially confirmed that time passes in an unusual-to-humans manner in the Anteverse, but HOW it passes oddly still not confirmed... Who's to say it doesn't travel in reverse of ours? If it did, that would make Trespasser the last kaiju and Slattern the first. Sort of. Explain your way out of THAT paper bag! XD

      Less insanely, if time, again, passes in an odd and as-of-yet undisclosed manner, it might be possible that in the Anteverse, the fourth dimension could be warped and bent just as easily as the other three. In this case either the Precursors (knowingly or unknowingly) take advantage of the time dilation to do more in less time, so to speak, or they engineered a time extension on their end to give them a more generous R&D and production schedule than the humans got.

      ... I'm gonna go get some sleep now. >_<

      Hyperion Gold wrote: AblueXKRS wrote: "...what resources? We as humans have almost completely stripped the planet of anything we would find useful. More than half the world's oil supplies are gone,...."

      Not so. We humans have mined and drilled for most of the Earth's resources on land. Once you go beyond the edge of the continental shelf; it's all untouched wilderness out there. There are untold trillions of barrels of oil beneath the seabed. Unknown tons worth of gold, platinum, diamonds, iron, bauxite, etc. beneath the sea floor. We can't get to it because of the tremendous depths involved.

      Good point. I hadn't thought much about that. We don't hear much about it, do we? That said, you'd have a hard time convincing me that the Amazon rainforest has an undersea counterpart xP

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    • Ah don't be so sure. From Nature .com: For the first time, scientists have discovered microbes living deep inside Earth’s oceanic crust — the dark volcanic rock at the bottom of the sea. This crust is several kilometres thick and covers 60% of the planet’s surface, making it the largest habitat on Earth.

      The microbes inside it seem to survive largely by using hydrogen, formed when water flows through the iron-rich rock, to convert carbon dioxide into organic matter. This process, known as chemosynthesis, is distinct from photosynthesis, which uses sunlight for the same purpose.

      Chemosynthesis also fuels life at other deep-sea locations such as hydrothermal vents, but those are restricted to the edges of continental plates. The oceanic crust is much bigger. If similar microbes are found throughout it, the crust “would be the first major ecosystem on Earth to run on chemical energy rather than sunlight”, says Mark Lever, an ecologist at Aarhus University in Denmark, who led the study.


      If these microbes are present throughout the Earth's crust they'd be the largest ecosystem on the planet. Bigger than the Amazon rainforest.

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    • Well, about your rant after the whole "Logic? LOGIC?!" I cant actually see what it is you're talking about. "Logic would dictate that IF being old made the Kaiju stronger, then they would be made old rather than let them grow". 

      So while I'm pretty sure you missed the IF, I'm not completely sure. 


      On a side note, Jurassic Park would have been much more awesome had it featured Kaiju. Plus why didnt the raptors try to jump through the window the first time?

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    • God dammit math is actually useful I'll be darned.

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    • Basilisk Centauri wrote: Well, about your rant after the whole "Logic? LOGIC?!" I cant actually see what it is you're talking about. "Logic would dictate that IF being old made the Kaiju stronger, then they would be made old rather than let them grow". 

      So while I'm pretty sure you missed the IF, I'm not completely sure.

      Mmm... Yes and no. If the idea was simply that BEING older made them better, then it follows that building them old would be logical. But this isn't necessarily true; who's to say kaiju have no need to learn how to control their bodies after being built? Maybe the knowledge or instinct or muscle memory is built in, maybe it isn't. Maybe building them as adults can cause a psychotic break when an essentially new mind becomes conscious in a fully-developed body it has no idea how to use. Maybe it doesn't; they might have an adult's mental structure forced on the new creation.

      My point is, again, that logic doesn't really matter or play a part. Not only is there so much about the process we don't know, but there's also the huge gulf in understanding the differences between humans and the Precursors. Alien life being what it is, alien (let alone from another verse entirely), the fact that we think this way is almost certain proof that they don't.

      P.S. Correcting my phone's autocorrect has given me RSI

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    • AblueXKRS wrote:
      How do you know they haven't been designed to live for a million years?


      Things that are designed to go into combat and withstand the intense stresses of bombardment with bullets, bombs, plasma discharges; the impact of Jaeger punches etc. aren't designed to last a million years because it might not survive the next battle.

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    • ...we are now bringing up unconfirmed implifications to defend your points? This is kind of weak.

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    • We could write an entire dictionary-sized book on all the things that are unconfirmed...

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    • Basilisk Centauri wrote:
      We could write an entire dictionary-sized book on all the things that are unconfirmed...

      You could with any fiction like in that universe wikia existed and there is a guy in a building smashed called Mareldicax Shovenixcor Toombledinke.

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    • AblueXKRS wrote:
      Much thanks to Reaper with no name for his brilliant writing and analysis of the film... love reading your work, bro.

      But regrettably, I do have to take issue with some of your conclusions.


      Reaper with no name wrote:
      Slattern's hide was penetrated by a chainsword, even though the nuke failed to do so.
      Right there we have proof that attacks from giant robots (such as punches, swords, and cargo ships) can inflict damage that a nuclear weapon cannot do in this story. Does it make sense? Absolutely not.
      I would call that believable. The two key forces created by a nuclear explosion involved in doing damage are pressure and heat. Perhaps the average kaiju skin can withstand some of that heat and pressure. But a sword does not rely on heat, so ignore that. It does rely on pressure, though, and if you can put a few hundred tons of arm force onto a point an inch across… I can’t see that not penetrating kaiju.


      Reaper with no name wrote:
      In fact, given the way biology works (which admittedly has no place in a movie about giant robots), a giant animal living for a thousand years would actually be weaker because of what the process of aging does to living things. Also, it's worth noting that we do get to see a glimpse of the Kaiju creation process in the Kaiju drifts. They appear to be being literally put together (or "grown" on one piece at a time). Given this knowledge, logic would dictate that if age could make a Kaiju stronger, the Precursors would have built them to be at a later stage in their life cycle (which is a roundabout way of saying "build them to be old in the first place").

      Logic? Logic?! You're talking about an alien-created living machine created by an alien, not only from another world, but from another dimension. How do you know the Precursors think the way humans do? I can think of several reasons that would negate the 'build them to be old in the first place' idea...

      One, as confirmed by Travis Beacham offsite (can't remember the link), time passes in the Anteverse in a different fashion than it does in our universe (though that doesn't explain, again, why the Precursors fail to drop 50 on earth at once... perhaps the wormhole is not stable? Hermann Gottlieb seems to think this is the case.).

      Two, what's to say the Precursors don't think building a kaiju young and letting it mature is the better option? Perhaps building them old makes them senile or depressed or something.

      Three, again, blue and orange morality. The Precursors are aliens. We can be pretty sure they don't speak any human language, but in the same vein, what's to say they understand anything the way we do? They might not even have the same concept of mathematics as we do. Heck, they live in another universe. What’s not to say that, in their universe, pi equals exactly 3, instead of 3.141 etc etc? What's to say their universe evan has a pi? When Norman drifts with the Kaiju brain, he learns that the Precursors are colonists. They want to come to earth, use all the resources they can get their hands on, and move on. But... what resources? We as humans have almost completely stripped the planet of anything we would find useful. More than half the world's oil supplies are gone, more than 80% of the planet's forests have been destroyed in the last 1,000 years, gold is increasingly hard to find... etc. It goes on. If they wanted those, why not move in before humanity started stealing them? If there are other things they want, Hydrogen, Helium, Oxygen, etc... why Earth? Those things are far more abundant elsewhere. They are and can only be entirely inscrutable.

      Four, when Newton Geiszler drifts with the kaiju brain, there's a brief segment which quite clearly shows that the Precursors have at least four more Knifehead kaiju in 'storage'. Of course, they never get deployed, so what? Ultimately none of what's been discussed matters at all.


      Reaper with no name wrote:
      We know that there is an official set of numbers for Trespasser which places his armor at 4 (which is fairly low by Kaiju standards). We also know that Slattern's official stats are 10+ across the board. Even if the numbers weren't correct, there would be no reason to believe that they were wildly off-base (otherwise, why would they have even been published?). This suggests that Slattern is far tougher than Trespasser.

      They probably were published to appease some human sense to have everything categorized... And I’m talking the idea that these numbers are purely a movie-marketing tie-in. That doesn't make the categories any more or less valid. The numbers could be dictated purely by narrative, as opposed to any relevant information. The kaiju 'get bigger as they go along,' so to speak, which flat-out means the last one to show up HAS to have bigger numbers than the first one to show up. This could be the only reason any of the numbers are what they are. If Slattern had numbers equaling or smaller than those of Trespasser (or ANY non-cat5 kaiju), then the tension of 'omg biggest one ever' goes right out the window and plummets into the waiting dustbin where the sprawled remains of the square-cube law already lay broken and groaning.


      Reaper with no name wrote:
      Having just picked up Pacific Rim: Tales From Year Zero, I can also add some things from it that we know about Trespasser. Trespasser was wounded by aircraft using miniguns (enough to bleed). The fact that bullets of such a small caliber were able to make Trespasser bleed suggest he isn't especially tough.

      I think we picked up different copies, then... my copy specifically notes that ordinary heavy rounds bouce right off it. When you first see it bleed in the book, what you're looking at is the monster being attacked by several SPECTRE gunships. These do indeed have 25mm miniguns on board, but they also have 40mm cannons and a 105mm artillery piece. Given that the fighters in the film are F-22s, which are armed with 20mm cannons that clearly do not harm the thing, and the fighters in the book are either F-35s (25mm) or F/A-18s (20mm) (though the F-35 is more likely) which also do not harm the thing, I'm more inclined to think the damage there is being done by the 105mm cannons instead of anything else. Note also the decrease in blood flow after the gunships bugger off and leave it to the fighters.

      In addition to this, the comic book is a little... off-key in its representation of the battle. Becket clearly states in the film it took 6 days to kill the thing, but the comic book would suggest less than a day passes between Trespasser arriving and the first mushroom cloud appearing.


      Reaper with no name wrote:
      We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser has been around for a long time (the Precursor MO suggests the opposite).

      Precursor MO is as impossible to understand as anything can get. You can't reliably claim anything on this field in either direction.


      Reaper with no name wrote:
      We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser is unusually tough (the fact that he was wounded by minigun bullets suggests the opposite).

      See my statements above. Minigun shminigun. There's more evidence against minigun damage than there is evidence for it.

      I did not quote EVERYTHING you said, only those parts that I feel were unfounded. That said, plenty of what you said makes a good deal of sense (We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser is a category 5, We don't know anything that would suggest Trespasser is affected differently by punches, blades, and cargo ships than other Kaiju, etc.)

      COME AT ME BRO

      <3

      The angle suggests that it is the miniguns. Furthermore, the idea that the bullets are making them bleed is not incompatible with the idea that they are bouncing off the Kaiju (it simply requires the bullets to penetrate the first layer of skin, and then bounce off of whatever is beneath). Also, it doesn't really matter if the caliber was 105mm or not. The point is, by Kaiju standards Trespasser was fairly fragile.

      Travis Beacham has confirmed that Tendo was waiting six days for the barge. Keep in mind, he wrote the comic.

      The movie makes the Precursor motive very clear. They build Kaiju, send them through the breach, observe the results, and make the next generation better based on the results. When the planet's resistance is finally exterminated, they move in and consume the world's resources, before moving on to the next one.

      This is incompatible with the idea of Trespasser being a sort of super-Kaiju. It is also incompatible with Travis Beacham's statement that the Kaiju are no more valuable to the Precursors than missiles or bombs are to us. The limiting factor on their ability to send Kaiju is not the number of Kaiju they can produce (we saw entire cages of Knifeheads, for example), but what the breach can send. This is why the Precursors are able to send more (and larger) Kaiju in shorter periods of time as the breach stabilizes. This is also why Kaiju are supposedly made to fight it out. If you can only send one at a time, you send the best. How do you tell which is the best? You have them fight it out.

      If we're going to bring in idle speculation, then I speculate that Trespasser was one of the weakest Kaiju, because his body type was used over and over again, which I speculate means he was cheap to produce, which implies that it was ineffective, because you get what you pay for. Furthermore, since Onibaba had the strangest appearance seen in the movie, it must have been the most expensive to produce, which means it must have been the strongest.

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    • Onibaba was a crusteacean, which was mentioned to be a basic kaiju body plan. My guess is that Otachi was the most expensive to produce, due to the amount of specialised body parts (wings, acid sack, tail, etc.).

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    • Bioniclezilla76 wrote:
      ...we are now bringing up unconfirmed implifications to defend your points? This is kind of weak.


      There's nothing weak about it. You don't understand how things are done in wartime. The Precursors wouldn't expend the resources necessary to make something that would last a million years only to have it destroyed in the next battle. Those resources would instead be put towards designing a better Kaiju that would accomplish the Precursors goal of wiping out humanity and taking over the planet. Remember Travis Beacham's statement that the Kaiju are no more valuable to the Precursors than missiles or bombs are to us. That being the case; there'd be no point in making Kaiju that last a million years. Kaiju are purpose-built weapons designed to defeat the offensive and defensive military capabilities of an enemy - which would be us. Once the enemy has been defeated; the Kaiju are unnecessary, so there's no point in keeping them sitting around for a million years. Also; leftover Kaiju from a prior war might not be of any use against the next enemy the Precursors encounter; another reason to not keep a lot of surplus Kaiju sitting around taking up space; breathing air; etc.

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    • Hyperion Gold wrote:

      Bioniclezilla76 wrote:
      ...we are now bringing up unconfirmed implifications to defend your points? This is kind of weak.


      There's nothing weak about it. You don't understand how things are done in wartime. The Precursors wouldn't expend the resources necessary to make something that would last a million years only to have it destroyed in the next battle. Those resources would instead be put towards designing a better Kaiju that would accomplish the Precursors goal of wiping out humanity and taking over the planet. Remember Travis Beacham's statement that the Kaiju are no more valuable to the Precursors than missiles or bombs are to us. That being the case; there'd be no point in making Kaiju that last a million years. Kaiju are purpose-built weapons designed to defeat the offensive and defensive military capabilities of an enemy - which would be us. Once the enemy has been defeated; the Kaiju are unnecessary, so there's no point in keeping them sitting around for a million years. Also; leftover Kaiju from a prior war might not be of any use against the next enemy the Precursors encounter; another reason to not keep a lot of surplus Kaiju sitting around taking up space; breathing air; etc.

      That's assumative. I mean it weak that people are defending their arguments with "we don't know if Tresspasser was blah blah blah so he was the toughest Kaiju"

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    • ha... In the graphic novel Trespasser looked weaker because in the movie he was tough enough to shrug off missiles, bullets, Gatling gun rounds every conventional at the current time while in the graphic novel he got hurt by Gatling rounds and it looked like he got slightly pushed back by it.

      Well Trespasser in MY opinion was built to be tough and fast to gather as much information on earths defenses before they send more Kaiju through.

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    • Tekk99 wrote: ha... In the graphic novel Trespasser looked weaker because in the movie he was tough enough to shrug off missiles, bullets, Gatling gun rounds every conventional at the current time while in the graphic novel he got hurt by Gatling rounds and it looked like he got slightly pushed back by it.

      Well Trespasser in MY opinion was built to be tough and fast to gather as much information on earths defenses before they send more Kaiju through.

      We didn't see much of tresspasser, just a shaky glimpse.

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    • But he lasted for roughly 6 days of non stop conventional warfare plus three nukes, and the way bullets and missiles bounced off of his hide.

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Bad attitude
      00:35, November 4, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Bioniclezilla76
      Bioniclezilla76 removed this reply because:
      14:53, November 3, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Bad attitude
      00:35, November 4, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Why are there three missing posts?

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    • Well, this is going to be a fun read! *grabs ice cream*

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    • Oh, wow, you're actually reading the whole thing, instead of just entering without knowing what we've already been over?

      You, good sir, have earned some respect from me.

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    • Hey Reaper, I've read ALL of this too XD, it wasn't bad.

      The posts were sent into the wrong thread.

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    • ... *steals Diamond's ice cream and Reaper's respect*


      ._.


      *nom*

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    • Tekk99 wrote:
      Hey Reaper, I've read ALL of this too XD, it wasn't bad.

      The posts were sent into the wrong thread.

      Too late, I've run out of respect to give for now. You'll have to do something else later to earn it.

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    • Sorry, kept thinking this was Onibaba vs Tresspasser.

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    • Reaper with no name wrote:

      Tekk99 wrote:
      Hey Reaper, I've read ALL of this too XD, it wasn't bad.

      The posts were sent into the wrong thread.

      Too late, I've run out of respect to give for now. You'll have to do something else later to earn it.

      I once a whole deluxe pizza in one sitting.

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    • Who wants to get back on topic?

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    • Bioniclezilla76 wrote: Who wants to get back on topic?

      NO ONE :D

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    • The people who were writing Tales from Year Zero pretty much did that 3 nukes thing jack shim just to get fans confused.

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    • 98.148.198.166 wrote:
      Weak or strong, Trespasser had to of been on the tough side and neither weak nor stronge, they wouldn't want to send a weak Kaiju through first to get killed so fast and they wouldn't want ot send a super powerfiul one so they could find a way to kill it. Trespasser had to have been in the middle, neither here nor there but with a great deal of strangth and power, I mean they cloned him the MOST being he had to have been there most succesful Kaiju, because they cloned his body type 3 times, 1 with Knifehead a CAT.3. 2 with Scunner a CAT.4. And last but far from least...Slattern a CAT 5 Kaiju even got part of the same body type as Trespasser. So he was pretty much the mold that set the stage for the rest of the Kaiju, the grandfather kaiju. (Right below Godzilla of course)


      I mean that doesn't really justify the efficiency of trespasser, The logic that he was used as a model for other kaiju is flawed. Seeing as how Tresspasser was the FIRST Kaiju, it would only make sense that for some of their more perfct designs that they use his mold. It's the same concept as sneakers, each Jordan is made from the cornerstone mold but with different designs to set them apart, and what is that to speak for other kaiju  ? especially a frankenstein looking motherfucker like karloff. i'm not i'm not insulting your logic but i feel you should look at everything at once.

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    • Oh! Such Language! (From "Suddenly Susan.")

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    • T050189 wrote:

      Reaper with no name wrote:

      Tekk99 wrote:
      Hey Reaper, I've read ALL of this too XD, it wasn't bad.

      The posts were sent into the wrong thread.

      Too late, I've run out of respect to give for now. You'll have to do something else later to earn it.
      I once a whole deluxe pizza in one sitting.

      Not impressed. I do that once a week.

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    • Glitchrr36 wrote:
      Catagory is not necessarily determined by mass. It also factors in toxcicity and ambiant radiation from the breach. We know he wasn't very toxic. (i have other things to do, so this will be finished later)


      Easy there, bro. I didn't say that size and weight are the only things that matter. I only said that he is better than a Category 4 in a way. Besides, he would also displace more water than Otachi (at least, I think he would). However, his toxicity was confirmed-ish to be low (while Otachi's is SEVERE, making her more dangerous than even Slattern in terms of toxicity) and maybe his radiation levels were low too. I think. Maybe. I don't know. Nonetheless, I will always consider Trespasser to be a Cat. 1 in my heart, no matter how absolutely AWESOME he may be.

      As a really small sidenote, I would've used Pacific Rim: The Mobile Game to help me support just a bit of my explanation because of how close the Kaiju look to their movie counterparts whenever a new Category appears and it makes you think that that's their real Category (at least Scunner is accurate), but they're not accurate AT ALL (Mutavore and Onibaba only look like themselves when they're Cat. 1, Leatherback and Knifehead look like themselves when Cat. 2, Raiju and Otachi look like themselves when they're at Cat. 3, and Slattern looks like himself when Cat. 4). It's TERRIBLE at how bad they f***ed up the Kaiju's looks. And the Jaeger's looks too. FREAKING CRIMSON TYPHOON IS MISSING THE 3RD ARM. WHAT THE HELL.

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    • 24.16.234.249 wrote:

      Glitchrr36 wrote:
      Catagory is not necessarily determined by mass. It also factors in toxcicity and ambiant radiation from the breach. We know he wasn't very toxic. (i have other things to do, so this will be finished later)


      Easy there, bro...It's TERRIBLE at how bad they f***ed up the Kaiju's looks. And the Jaeger's looks too. FREAKING CRIMSON TYPHOON IS MISSING THE 3RD ARM. WHAT THE HELL.

      0_0 no comment.

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:32, November 13, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Reaper with no name wrote:
      T050189 wrote:

      Reaper with no name wrote:


      Tekk99 wrote:
      Hey Reaper, I've read ALL of this too XD, it wasn't bad.

      The posts were sent into the wrong thread.

      Too late, I've run out of respect to give for now. You'll have to do something else later to earn it.
      I once a whole deluxe pizza in one sitting.
      Not impressed. I do that once a week.

      I got 1st in English and Writing simultaneously in whole of Hong Kong, University of New South Wales Exam.

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    • Tekk99 wrote: Is he high?

      -_- can we have any maturity at all?

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:33, November 13, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:34, November 13, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • I have to wonder how these forum threads go from being pretty intellectual in nature and then all of a sudden go into cussing name calling matches. Things get out of control rather fast.  o.O

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    • SapphireStardust wrote: I have to wonder how these forum threads go from being pretty intellectual in nature and then all of a sudden go into cussing name calling matches. Things get out of control rather fast.  o.O

      I honestly agree.

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    • Bioniclezilla76 wrote:

      24.16.234.249 wrote:

      Glitchrr36 wrote:
      Catagory is not necessarily determined by mass. It also factors in toxcicity and ambiant radiation from the breach. We know he wasn't very toxic. (i have other things to do, so this will be finished later)

      Easy there, bro...It's TERRIBLE at how bad they f***ed up the Kaiju's looks. And the Jaeger's looks too. FREAKING CRIMSON TYPHOON IS MISSING THE 3RD ARM. WHAT THE HELL.
      0_0 no comment.


      I was just proving a point dude. Chill. :)

      We all know that the Mobile Game is a disgrace to us all anyways.

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    • 24.16.234.249 wrote:

      Bioniclezilla76 wrote:

      24.16.234.249 wrote:

      Glitchrr36 wrote:
      Catagory is not necessarily determined by mass. It also factors in toxcicity and ambiant radiation from the breach. We know he wasn't very toxic. (i have other things to do, so this will be finished later)

      Easy there, bro...It's TERRIBLE at how bad they f***ed up the Kaiju's looks. And the Jaeger's looks too. FREAKING CRIMSON TYPHOON IS MISSING THE 3RD ARM. WHAT THE HELL.
      0_0 no comment.


      I was just proving a point dude. Chill. :)

      We all know that the Mobile Game is a disgrace to us all anyways.

      One comment this time, I don't get how come before and after the rant you tell people who are prefectly calm to chill. I just noticed a certain bit of irony there that's all

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:35, November 13, 2013
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    • I don't know how to respond.

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    • Bioniclezilla76 wrote:
      I don't know how to respond.

      It's ok. I'll just be leaving this thread now. :)

      KTHNXBAI.

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:35, November 13, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:35, November 13, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:36, November 13, 2013
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    • Oh, still, it isn't very adult to call people high...

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:36, November 13, 2013
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    • I honest to god hate it when people say they are entitled to their opinions and that has nothing to do with the topic, ciao!

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    • It also means you've got to be tolerant of others opinions as well and be polite. Otherwise it doesnt work and you must go by everyone elses standards or get kicked out :)

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:37, November 13, 2013
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    • You didnt exactly refer to anybody in your original comment, so frankly, nobody knew who you were aiming the comment at. So really, Tekk, he wasnt over reacting because he really did think you were saying he was high. 

      Also you are a pretty immature person at times :/ very intolerant as well, but that's beside the point. 


      If you want to prevent something like this happening again in future, I'd suggesting making sure that if your going to call someone high, everyone knows who the comment is directed at. 

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      03:37, November 13, 2013
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    • Not really. That's just having fun - this is a discussion. Now you really should stop dragging us further off topic ;)

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      11:14, November 13, 2013
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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      11:14, November 13, 2013
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    • Basilisk Centauri what do you think Trespasser's role was?

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    • A Kaiju. Definitely a Kaiju. Or maybe he was a turtle mutated by the radiation coming off a nuclear bomb... 


      Oh, his role? Definitely to be a good little Kaiju. :3

      Oh yes, who's a good humanity-destroyer? *huggles Trespasser* Yes you are, you're a great humanity-destroyer *continues huggling a very embarrased Trespasser*

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    • Hyperion Gold
      Hyperion Gold removed this reply because:
      Rude
      11:33, November 13, 2013
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    • he was bigger than the next ones and also lived through like twice as many nukes. I think that idea of "He was a large one, then they saw they wouldnt need quite so large ones and set slightly weaker ones" is about right. Untill the Jaegers were brought into the picture, it's likely they started engineering Kaiju to be more focused on speed or strength so they could do more damage before the lethal orange mushroom clouds of the nukes started flying. 

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    • Then why did they only gradually get larger? One would think that after the first couple of defeats by Jaegers, the Precursors would just say "Well, back to the Trespasser model" and immediately pump out something of similar size. Instead, we saw the Kaiju gradually get larger. This suggests that Trespasser's size was not directly proportional to his power.

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    • Well, there's Hermann's work on the Portal and how well they can send through Kaiju, or theres another theory.


      The Precursors need to provide their people with entertainment in the form of Kaiju/Jaeger wars! The weaker Kaiju were designed to goad the human populace into designing something worthwhile to fight their monsters! The first Kaiju were like an extended Pilot episode or a giant prologue documenting their power... and then BOOM! Karloff gets taken out by a single punch, causing the Precursors to dramatically rethink their plan, produce bigger Kaiju, get more background scenery shots, get MOAR SPIKEY BITS!!!! 

      And then, as soon as the crowd starts to notice a trend in the fights, often ending with a Kaiju defeat, their sponsers tell them to step up the action and the drama or else they'll have their funding cut and they'll build a wall of epic slideshows instead. The Precursors answer comes in the form of the Category-VI's, giant weapons of mass destruction that wont crap on the enemy untill its dead! (small mishap in the second episode :/ whoopsie..) 

      And then, right after smashing through humanity's last line of defence, a stupid wall that the Kaiju could see over, comes the Mark-5 Striker Eureka. He punches and he slices and he makes a really ugly pose for the cameras. The Precursors funding is running out... they need to act quickly... they still havent managed to destroy their main giant green nemisis, Cherno Alpha... and the sponsors are getting picky. One more loss and their budget will be cut. 

      The double event occurs, flinging out two of the most dangerous and specialised Kaiju yet, Otachi and Leatherback. With added family drama as the poor, orphaned child can barely even get a single meal before dying with his parents! But the sponsors are interested in this new blue Jaeger with the glowing chest... could it be a worthy successor of Cherno Alpha? WHY YES,  IT IS THE PRECURSORS SALVATION!!!

      They start to work immediately, pulling out their grand finale of all grand finales, Slattern the Magnificent. The only lightningised Kaiju ever produced, they send the monstrosity out to fight off the invaders who've decided to take the fight to them! (little WTF moment for the sponsors)

      With his intelectually disabled backup by his side, Slattern shall destroy these upsurpers like the giant robots they are! What a fitting end to this brilliant series! The crowd goes wild with anticipation! Oh what a glorious live-action-fighting-and-drama this will be! 

      And then, out of the blue (well actually silver but that's besides the point), one of the Jaegers (that one that lay behind the wall) sacrifices itself to hurt its friend and attempt to destroy Slattern. But what ho! It does not work!

      It'll take more than a big firey ball of destruction to take out Slattern, KING OF THE KAIJU!!! In this live action dramatic finale, falling into the breach together, Slattern tearing away at the new antagonist like there's no tommorow for either of them, the blue man-thing stabbing away uselessly with a single arm-and-blade, falling, falling, FALLING!!! The end is near... who will win...

      Oh.

      The blue man-thing won. Well that was anti-climatic. 

      BOOM

      WAIT, there it is! 

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    • Onibaba, Otachi and Leatherback were all shorter than Trespasser and touche Reaper touche.

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    • Tekk99 wrote: Onibaba, Otachi and Leatherback were all shorter than Trespasser and touche Reaper touche.

      This movie poster steels my point. (I was going to stay away from this discussion but I can't resist this)
      Size doesn&#039;t matter
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    • Otachi may well be longer than Trespasser is tall (and is within 100 tons of his weight), Leatherback is significantly heavier, and Onibaba is a category 2.

      Basilisk Centauri, you get a cookie.

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    • Yay cookies! *NOM*

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    • Cookie. Singular.

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    • (Gives Basilisk a whole bag of vanilla Oreo Double-Stuf cookies.)

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    • Can we please stay on topic?

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    • Hyperion Gold wrote:
      (Gives Basilisk a whole bag of vanilla Oreo Double-Stuf cookies.)

      (Orders, recieves and eats hundreds of vanilla Oreo Triple-Decker Septuple-Stuff cookies to prove how rich I am, coz I feel the need to somethimes and love Oreos)

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    • Hahahahahaha! Yes!

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    • OH HELL YES

      (just in a good mood because of chat)

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